Deep Vitality. How to Honour Your True Yes and Avoid Burnout

Christine: Welcome to Lead Well! and to today's episode where my guest is Dr. Deborah Zucker, a naturopathic physician, mental health counselor, and award-winning author of the Vitality Map. And you just shared with me that you have now also a companion book to that? Deborah: Yes. The Vitality Journal came out last month. Christine: Oh wow. That's brand new. And is this more of a workbook then? Deborah: Yeah. It's a workbook style, taking the same principles from the vitality map, but putting it right into practice. Christine: That's great. That's also always so helpful. And so I found out that, more than 25 years ago, you yourself went through a deep health crisis with chronic fatigue and even depression and exhaustion that forced you to rethink everything you knew about healing.

And we're really looking forward to learning more about that and how you have overcome this and: how you're now helping others. So I think the vitality map in the, in that book you talk about the nine keys to deep vitality and I'd love to look into those and yeah, and also to talk about what it really means to live a vital life. So what is vitality to you, to us, to anyone out there. And there is also something that you call the Deep Yes. And I love to learn about that as well because I'm in a. Community of the wise woman sisterhood. And the founder of that, Lori Pappas, she has written a book that is that, that is titled The Magic of Yes. So there seems a bit of a yes out there, which is fantastic. Wonderful. So welcome Deborah. It's so great to have you.

Deborah Thanks so much, Christine. Yeah. I appreciate yeah, just the opportunity to chat and explore all these different: ideas together. Christine: So let's look back into this period that you had with your own health crisis, and that has changed everything for you. So what did that teach you about real vitality? Deborah: Yeah, that was in my early twenties and it was a huge wake up call in my life. I was, on this trajectory. I thought I knew what was happening in my young adulthood, and then I found myself in bed and unable to get up and engage in the life that I thought I was supposed to be living. And that just, it sparked just a a deep inquiry, and began, with learning about physical health, but then really dropped quickly into the mental emotional realms and the spiritual realms. And that inquiry, and I could say has been living with me ever since.

And it turned into a calling. 'cause I found the more I was learning in my own healing journey, the more: I was wanting to share with other people and I began to recognize that there were some key missing skills and capacities that I hadn't learned when I grew up, and then I discovered most of us haven't learned these. I think of them as basic life skills of how to really attune to ourselves and listen to the feedback that is there. 24x7 guiding us towards what actually supports our vitality and what does not. And so there's this on ongoing parallel inquiry for me through my own journey and through what I was seeing with others that came along when I entered my formal medical training as a naturopathic physician and then later in counseling and coaching. And it continued to just clarify, oh, there's these principles that I see as more of the deeper foundation of our relationship with ourselves. And how we can move through life oriented towards our own wellbeing that we're being missed in those trainings.

Yeah. It's like they started a: different point along the journey and it felt like it was missing the beginning part. Christine: Wow. Wow. And I was always saying, almost saying that you're probably. Lucky to a certain extent to have, having had that experience so young as at such a young age, because, I went through a very similar experience, but I was in my very late forties, turning 50. And so yes, that was a pretty transformational experience for me as well. But I came much later in life. So you had your entire life before you when this happened. Wow. That's that's interesting. Now you say that in this vitality map the nine keys, which one do you think or do you see people struggle most with? Deborah: I don't know if I can answer that, just because, everyone's journey is so unique.

And I guess I'll just name the first key is Honoring Your Unique Life. And so in a lot of ways, this I would say is the foundation that maybe most of us struggle with. Which: is really learning to turn towards ourselves with love and kindness and a reverence for this life that we have. We might get that cognitively. But to actually live that way, to have our self care be rooted in that place of not taking our lives for granted. To put our own wellbeing front and center. To recognize that, if we're not caring for ourselves, if we're not prioritizing the clarity, of the feedback that's coming to us around what is our unique path, who are we here to be and really honoring, just our own, our own wellbeing at that foundational level Christine: then and maybe also not comparing ourselves to others. Again, understand. Yes,

Deborah Yes. Because it is really acknowledging the uniqueness of each of us. There's Yeah. No other me out there. There's no other you out there. And we're here just for this one, opportunity to be alive in this body and: being, and to, it's like we, we remember that sometimes when, there's a death of a loved one or we have a near miss. Or we're just, in awe of life at the birth of a baby, or just there are these moments that bring us back to, oh my, this is such an amazing miracle that we are all alive and conscious and living our lives in these bodies and beings, but then we lose track of it. And so this key is about like actually cultivating the practice to bring that awareness front and center. That gratitude, that reverence for life, that acknowledgement that no one else is here, but, but us to take care of and guide this life. Christine: Yeah. Sometimes I had the impression that there are people that take more care of their cars than of their own bodies and minds. Deborah: Yes. Yeah. Their cars as well as other people in our lives. Like we're it's like one, it's a natural response to care for and love others.

But it's also there can be a lot of programming: around prioritizing others over ourselves. And it can be very upheld as so selfless and yet, and people, even just a bit of turning towards themselves can have an idea that it's selfish to do to, yeah, so to pop out of that and really challenge those thinkings and assumptions. Christine: And then I know you also talk about embracing your shadows. And I know this concept of shadows from Carl Gustav Jung. So how does that connect to the healing approach that you're taking and teaching?

Deborah So this too, I think is a big missing piece in our journeys of self-care and of even just guiding ourselves in our lives, that there are parts of us that are unconscious. That are running the show. And these parts are often rooted in our own wounding or trauma or what was passed down to us intergenerationally or simply what was modeled to: us. The people that were around us when we were younger, what society tells us. And so we have these inner personas or identities that are running the show unconsciously. That might be counter to what we might, our truth our actual, when we drop in and we're more centered and aware, they can feel counter to that. So this shows up in people's self-care journeys when they are trying to actualize a change in their lives and live in a different way and they keep watching themselves self-sabotage or avoid or resist. And give into those patterns and it can feel really confusing and it can really spark those shame and self-judgment voices inside too, that there's something wrong with me.

Why can't I do this? I keep tripping myself up. And, but to actually recognize, no, like these are wounded parts often. That actually need our loving care and attention and integration in a conscious: way into ourselves. And so this gets more into the realm of psychotherapy or specialized coaching that does parts work, or other ways of attending to the shadows. Christine: And it also explains as far as I understand that, when you wanna change something in your own life, you have, you often have a lot of motivation, but motivation doesn't bring you through to the end goal because you need a lot of discipline as well. And there is something interesting that I heard about you saying it's easeful discipline, which to me sounds so exciting because I admit I have a bit of a challenge with my discipline. So how can discipline feel easeful? Deborah: I know people do a double take what useful? Yeah. But that, that, that word was chosen purposefully because it's true that most of us have an orientation towards discipline where it's like.

This harsh, strict, mean voice inside that we have to will ourselves into submission and I don't, if you're not watching me right now, I'm tensing up my body as I'm: saying that and, but it's actually possible to have discipline that is useful and kind. And it coming from an orientation of really having our own back. So this discipline is rooted in what we were just talking about, that deeper foundational shift of our relationship with ourself. But it's also pragmatic too. It's acknowledging okay, like it's not just a matter of willing ourselves, we actually need to look at what's going on and to be strategic. So one is getting clear about commitments. And just really being clear, what is truly aligned, not what someone else tells us we're supposed to be doing, but that we really feel like we wanna try that is really aligned and we're committed to. And two, looking with strategic eyes and intelligence at the realities of our life.

That's the other place that people get tripped up is like trying to force something into their lives that doesn't fit with their other needs. And so again, it's yeah, you have to look with clear eyes and be like,: oh, if I wanna try and integrate this new habit, maybe it could fit here. 'cause I actually see how it would work well in the flow of my day. And to look at when we've tried to do it in another time or another way, what actually happened. And that can reveal other needs. So the obstacles that are there, we can view as other needs. And that really shifts. The conversation within ourselves oh, it's not like I'm just doing this unconsciously. There's other needs that I need to attend to as well. And then the third part is structures of support. So recognizing we all need support, people support, as well as other ways to remind ourselves and keep us in the mindset of the changes that we're trying to make. And in my books, I have a whole long list of ideas to seed what that might look like. Christine: Okay. To seek support or to provide support. What's your take? Deborah: Oh to have support on board for the changes that we're making. So that's part of discipline is

recognizing, yeah. Are there: certain people, accountability partners or professionals to bring on board to hold us. Calendar reminders, programs we might have a structure to, to be in as we make these changes. Or there's so many different ways that we can bring that awareness more front and center. But yeah, again, it's like it doesn't happen in a vacuum, so how do we create the tapestry that can hold us in the change? And that's what useful discipline is. And coming from that, that loving orientation towards ourself. Christine: And what I always also want to say is that this whole idea of self-optimization I don't really buy into that. Yeah. Because that's another thing that, that puts a lot of pressure on us and we have to do it. And we're trying to, I don't know, get better in this and get better in that, but it doesn't really ask what's really important for myself.

Deborah Yes.: I so love that you mentioned that. 'Cause the things we're talking about can immediately go to that orientation that we need to fix ourselves. And this is not that. 'cause actually at its root, it's actually about loving ourselves and really honoring our truth. And aligning with that. So yeah the key that you were alluding to before aligning with your Yes is absolutely essential here. And that's very different than fixing yourself. The orientation inside is one of congruence and really relaxing into the natural unfolding of our lives and being with ourselves in that.

Christine Now I work as a leadership coach as well, and a lot of my coachees, they're in the lower level of management and they're all so terribly busy these days. And most of them are talking about or asking about time management and what can they do to be: more efficient and more effective. And sometimes I like to remind them there is probably too much on their plate, to get everything done. And so I think quite a lot of people that I talked to as well in the beginning, they are heading toward a burnout. And I think it's similar to what you experienced in your late twenties Now. How can someone notice that they're going down that rabbit hole before it's too late? Deborah: Yeah. You just named some of the signs of that, right? If we're feeling so overwhelmed and there's not enough time to actually tend to these other needs that's like a first red flag.

And also noticing just, the feeling in our body, are we tense? Pausing. I think, one of the remedies to what you're talking about is integrating pauses even when it's so crazy busy that we feel like that's impossible. Even a minute here: or there to pause and actually feel our bodies look around with curiosity and get in touch with what's actually going on inside in the moment. And the more we start to do that, the more we get to understand the feedback that's there for us. Like the symptoms, that might get diagnosed into something are actually feedback for us. Saying, Hey, maybe you need to slow down here, or Yeah, maybe you need to, as you were saying, like prune some things from your life that really aren't aligned, that you think you're supposed to be doing that other people told you, or that's modeled, as the way to do it that really aren't congruent, that will free up some energy and more space.

And I do feel like that, yeah. In this day and age for so many of us, like that's one of the biggest medicines there is to slow: down and create some more space. Christine: And I love that you say it's, it doesn't take more than a minute, I used to call them micro resilience breaks. Yes. Yeah. Deborah: I love that name. Christine: Yeah, the most important thing is that they do happen often. Deborah: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I have a one of my coaching clients recently, she was similar to what you're talking about. Like just really overwhelmed at work and just running from this to that.

And she was, it was so bad that she was considering quitting and she chose, through, through our work together to create a practice of slowing down at work. And it was like amazing. Like it doesn't always happen this way, but the change was so rapid for her where one, she got surprised 'cause the slowing down at work purposely not typing as fast, like taking a little longer to respond to people, like, yeah, doing these little micro practices. And she discovered she actually became way more efficient at work: because her mind was able to focus in on what was most important and what really, yeah needed her attention. And she started to actually enjoy her work and was more able to connect with the people around her and feel like the fulfillment of what she was offering. And so it's like sometimes it's really paradoxical. It's not what it feels like needs to happen. To shove more things in or move faster, but actually to flip it over and give some space to it all. Christine: Wow. Yeah. And then I think there is another idea, or another key as you call 'em is about Living Like You Matter. So why is that so essential?

Deborah Yeah. One, because we all do matter and we can forget that. So this key really illuminates more of what I touched into a little bit with the first key. Where we need to fill our own first, in order to then: be able to show up for those close to us who we wanna care for and support, show up for our communities, show up for the world at large, and just the needs that we have as a global family right now. You know wherever our calling is. Unless we are tending to our own wellbeing as a number one priority and supporting our vitality and listening for that feedback, listening for the yeses, we are simply gonna run ourselves into the ground. We're gonna burn out. We are not gonna have much to give. It's not. Whereas if we tend to ourselves like we can keep on giving. And this is also the living like you matters and acknowledgement that, we're all connected. We're not in isolation. And that each of us, no matter how we're, whatever we're calling, however our vitality expresses in the world, that matters,

it makes a difference. Whether it's, as we connect with the people when we're buying groceries or our neighbors down the: street, or the children that we're raising, or... It all matters how we show up and the love and attention and the presence, the quality of presence we bring. And, yeah, so to not take your life for granted, to not think that, being a good human is that we sacrifice ourselves in order to serve. Because that doesn't actually serve anyone. Christine: Oh yeah. And it reminds me a lot of something that Dr. Jane Goodall always says, said she unfortunately passed away a few weeks ago. She always said you do make an impact and it's your choice to decide what kind of impact you wanna make. Yes, I find that aligned with what you just said.

Wow. Now, if someone feels exhausted right now and stuck where they are, what would you say is the first thing they can do? Yeah. Or what would be the first thing you say to: them so that they can feel better? Deborah: Yeah, The first thing is to... it's what I've already been saying, to slow down enough to turn towards ourselves with that loving kindness and listen for what's the feedback that this exhaustion is offering? Where's that coming from in you? And to listen to it. To listen to the wisdom. 'cause we all have that wisdom inside. And if you're having trouble discovering what that wisdom or that message is for you, seek out a resonant professional, to work with. Because it can be hard, particularly when we're talking about the shadows.

Sometimes we can't see what we can't see. But, we're relational creatures and we need each other. And it's actually really important to find those supports for ourselves. So whether it's a professional, whether it's a dear friend, a loved one, but to not be: alone in these feelings. And to find our way into the clarity of what those messages are for us. And, starting with rest, right? It's like we're tired, let ourselves really sleep, let ourselves rest. Again, it's like unwinding and disentangling from all the shoulds and all the things that we're trying to live up to the expectations. To come back to the basics of what really matters in life. To really filter out the rest and tend to ourselves so that we can find our feet again and engage more fully again. But sometimes that takes, a pause, a small pause, or a bigger pause to regroup. Christine: And not feeling bad when we are just lying on a sofa for 30 minutes. Yes, there's so many people who cannot even slow down for half an hour.

Deborah Yes. Yeah. Yes. Rest. Let yourself rest. Let yourself say yes to those. Because we all have: the nudges inside that are saying, wouldn't it be lovely if I could lie around all afternoon or go to bed at eight o'clock at night, or, whatever your version of that, where you actually have those voices inside nudging you to listen. Like just what would it be to just say yes to that, to give yourself that gift of yes, I'm the one guiding myself right now in this life, and I want to listen to what actually supports my wellbeing. To be kind to myself like that. Christine: Wow. Now, as my last question to you what is your vision, Deborah? Deborah: My vision like for the world, for myself. For what? What? Both, what scale would you like me to speak to there? Christine: It's a very broad question. I know when it's on purpose. Deborah: Okay. Let me just check in and see what comes.

Yeah, what's coming through is: that, we live in a world where what we're touching into today in this conversation is the way that we move through life. That, as young people, we are taught how to listen to our bodies and the messages that are there, and to really know how to guide ourselves and take care of ourselves. And that becomes a translation of wholehearted living. Of living, with a loving presence that we extend to ourselves and others as we move through our days. And that, there's a sense of congruence that we feel inside of feeling of being at home in ourselves. And the courage and sometimes the vulnerability to really follow those yeses and really live into the uniqueness of who we're each here to be. Christine: Wow.

It feels good. It just by listening to you: already slowed down. That's wonderful. Now, we talked about your book, where can people find more about You? Other than reading your book. Deborah: Yeah. My business is Vital Medicine vital medicine.com is my main website. And I actually have a page just for podcast listeners, vital medicine.com/podcast, which has it's just one page that gives you links to the books. It offers you a free guide to the nine keys to Deep Vitality. And if you choose to sign up for one of my women's circles or retreat programs or virtual coaching I'll offer an initial 15% discount. So just as a thank you for listening to these episodes and supporting this kind of work in the world. Christine: Yeah

Deborah I can only say huge. Thank you. For sharing your work today, but also for: doing the work you're doing because it just feels that you're bringing a lot of good into the world. Thank you for that. Likewise, Christine. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Christine: Thank you.