Ep 136. Before You Judge the Behaviour, Get Curious

00:00:00: Maybe the biggest change doesn't start with changing.

00:00:04: The other one, maybe it starts was changing the way we meet them?

00:00:10: We listen to them.

00:00:14: how much you're curious about them.

00:00:18: high and welcome to lead.

00:00:19: well there is something happening in Nepal at a moment that I find absolutely extraordinary.

00:00:31: There isn't elderly elephant their over seventy years old who has experienced a lot in her life.

00:00:39: People have been afraid of her, she had been restrained because getting close to her was considered dangerous.

00:00:47: and then James French was asked to work with her And he did so!

00:00:53: Already on the second day something happened.

00:00:58: She approached him very gently reached out with her drunk, touched him At one point even brought head towards his forehead.

00:01:09: And when I saw this, I thought wow because what changed?

00:01:13: It wasn't the elephant's history it was everything that she had experienced.

00:01:17: James hadn't trained her to perform a new behavior.

00:01:22: so what has changed?

00:01:25: The interaction has changed and That is what i want to talk about today Because the main question Is What becomes possible When we stop trying To control behavior and start listening to what's underneath it.

00:01:42: You heard me talk about James many times before, because the trust technique has deeply influenced me in how I see animals And today i will not explain the method.

00:01:55: Today i want to talk about How we interpret behavior?

00:02:01: At the end, it's always the same as you already heard me say so many times.

00:02:12: James and Shelley they started their journey in Mongolia where They were meeting people working with horses And You know that james has a long history of working with Horses?

00:02:27: Towards The End Of Their Journey They Came Across A Horse That Was Considered Really Aggressive And there were young people, a young boy that was even kicking at the horse from distance.

00:02:39: Literally you could see what we call thinking levels go up here and then James came in.

00:02:48: he just sat down with this person looking after the horse and also this young boy.

00:02:55: He taught them to getting present still inside And it was so beautiful to see because almost immediately also the horse calmed down and was much more approachable by that.

00:03:13: That's an interesting point, because at the end of today aggression in horses does not exist.

00:03:22: when we Think about a horse being aggressive.

00:03:26: We think of them as dangerous, difficult... As we need to fight with them.

00:03:34: and what happens then is that we lose our curiosity.

00:03:43: The thing the behavior really is real but it might not be because hidden behind this aggression is mostly fear or pain, maybe frustration.

00:04:02: Maybe also overwhelm Or may be previous learning because that's what they have learned how to react.

00:04:12: and when we see behind the scenes And we acknowledge That our approach Is so different Because How can I?

00:04:22: be the horse or shout at a horse because it's aggressive when I understand that its in fear, what would that help?

00:04:32: It wouldn't.

00:04:34: But now let's get back to Nepal Because there are two elephants really that James and Shelley have been working with And The first elephant called Lucky.

00:04:48: she starts seeking contact after few days also So they did the trust technique with her.

00:04:55: And just after a few days, she started to coming closer to James and also her Mahut and also the lady that is looking after her and has rescued them.

00:05:10: What's so interesting and what's touching to see is that she chose to come close... She chose getting in contact with people And isn't that beautiful?

00:05:23: When we do not try to force the other being, To be touched.

00:05:30: It's them who seek.

00:05:33: and with Bigam That is a second animal The Second Elephant There Is A Long History.

00:05:40: She Has Been Considered As Being Very Aggressive.

00:05:43: she has been Feared By Humans Also Restrained For That Reason Because Nobody Dare To Get Near Her.

00:05:51: And yet, when allowed and when invited to the stillness she approaches very gently.

00:06:01: So her previous behavior may have made perfect sense in her previous experience!

00:06:12: Now let's see... In this environment where she was offered peace or this stillness it doesn't make any sense anymore.

00:06:23: And when we think about it, we do a very similar thing with humans We consider an employee being difficult or resistant Or we have a defensive manager or emotional person or An uncooperative team member and can be the same as our kids.

00:06:46: The question really is are we describing?

00:06:52: just the behavior in a specific situation.

00:06:58: And there is something important here, it does not mean that I'm suggesting we accept harmful behaviors or possibly harmful behaviors.

00:07:08: Boundaries of course matter and thats why James & Shelley did when they knew they would travel to Nepal the elephant, so that they could work with them.

00:07:24: With this separation to start off.

00:07:29: but The thing is...the behavior Is not the identity.

00:07:38: So yes we need boundaries.

00:07:40: Yes We Need To Make Sure That We Are Safe Both In That Situation.

00:07:46: But We Also Would Need That Curiosity to look behind that behavior, because the moment I decide you're difficult my curiosity disappears and i become reactive.

00:08:00: And this is not helpful for neither you or

00:08:04: me.".

00:08:05: Now what James & Shelley have taught me over the years Is to slow down...and to really observe!

00:08:15: And observe was there without interpreting What I'm seeing And also to listen before intervening, because so often we see something and where... We jump on too help or receive some thing.

00:08:36: But that is not always very helpful.

00:08:40: So really listen!

00:08:42: So the other being can express themselves.

00:08:46: Let them have an opinion.

00:08:48: let them express their opinions because cooperation is not the same as compliance.

00:08:55: If I want to cooperate, there are two e-quals that are cooperating and i often talk about...I want to give the animal a voice And yet there's second part of it Because if you give someone a voice You also need to be willing To hear their answer.

00:09:23: Listening is not just a technique, listening to be really open and hear.

00:09:32: And also take the consequences of what we're hearing there.

00:09:38: Now let me return to the bigger point because so often in life We see our behavior and immediately restart to create a story around it.

00:09:52: So we're telling ourselves a story of what We think this is all about and Then, we react to the story.

00:10:04: We no longer look into What's actually there?

00:10:10: And...what would happen instead if we slowed down when we see something or we observe Something and re-observe like a scientist so someone who is really interested in what's behind the scene and become curious.

00:10:30: And ask, What Is Actually Happening?

00:10:33: Am I missing maybe?

00:10:34: What can be reason why?

00:10:37: Maybe The Biggest Change Doesn't Start with Changing The Other One... Maybe It Starts With Changing The Way We Meet Them, We Listen To Them How Much we Are Curious About Them And that is why I wish you a week full of curiosity and speak to you soon.

00:11:03: Bye for now!