Ep 131. Spirituality Without the Woo: Finding Presence in Everyday Life

00:00:00: Somehow I felt this is no longer my world, and i turned back into the more cognitive world.

00:00:07: And now...I'm on The Quest probably!

00:00:13: What could be a spirituality for me without the whole let-me call it woohoo?

00:00:20: And any more grounded spiritualities?

00:00:24: Hi & welcome to Leadwell.

00:00:30: Just like in our life, as we grow and get older sometimes We have to let go of old notions Old constructs Sometimes relationships In order To expand Our consciousness.

00:00:44: In order to discover More Of Life more of ourselves.

00:00:50: My guest today is Colette Lafia, an award-winning writer, retreat leader and a spiritual director based in the San Francisco Bay Area.

00:01:01: Hi Colette!

00:01:02: Hi Christine nice to be here.

00:01:05: So for many years, Colette you have guided people into deeper contemplative practice through retreats and workshops in one-to-one spiritual direction.

00:01:15: And you have a new book leaving the shore experiencing poetry as prayer...and that is something I'm really looking forward to because my mom was a lot into poetry!

00:01:26: At school i had to memorize it but poems these days.

00:01:34: So you explore how poetry can become more than something we just read or analyze so that it becomes a practice of presence, way of slowing down and listening more deeply and reconnecting with the sacred in everyday

00:01:50: life.".

00:01:51: In this conversation I'm looking forward to talking about poetry prayer attention Unlearning and why simple moments, a meal or sleepless night.

00:02:03: A line of poetry can become doorways into something much deeper.

00:02:09: Welcome again Colette

00:02:11: Thank you.

00:02:14: So the title of your book is Leaving The Shore.

00:02:18: so what are we leaving behind when We Leave The Shore?

00:02:23: That's such a wonderful question.

00:02:25: I think for me, leaving the shore is way of sometimes going beyond what we might assume or know especially in spiritual life where many are schooled and framework of the holy and those kind of things, but I think the interior journey spiritual nature within yourself.

00:02:56: And so in order to do that, sometimes we need to let go or what we call in a spiritual direction discover the more of The Holy and More Of The Divine That Is Wanting To Be Offered To Us.

00:03:10: So We Are Leaving The Shore Just Like In Our Life As We Grow And Get Older.

00:03:14: Sometimes We Have To Let Go Of Old Notions Old Constructs sometimes relationships, in order to expand our consciousness.

00:03:25: In order to discover more of life...more of

00:03:31: ourselves.".

00:03:32: And it's a great way of putting it so that I can leave something behind when i want to see something new?

00:03:38: Yeah yeah!

00:03:39: Sometimes in the spiritual we talk about shedding releasing going into something that the unknown in order for something new to emerge.

00:03:51: And people who are creative know this too, you have almost a sense of disorder and not quite knowing before something can

00:03:59: emerge.".

00:04:00: Yeah...that's absolutely true!

00:04:02: So your way of discovery is then poetry?

00:04:07: In this particular book, Poetry.

00:04:10: This is my fourth book and in the other few books I did more what's called creative nonfiction.

00:04:16: so it was exploring spiritual concepts through narrative...in a different way.

00:04:23: but yeah, this one was through poetry and I do fine.

00:04:27: And i have now for the last six months since the book was released leading people in contemplative experiences around the book mainly a practice called which is uh christian practice rooted in the this century benedicti tradition and it's just a way of slowing down and pausing when you read, allowing the text to become very personal.

00:04:53: A lot of times people approach poetry as what does this mean?

00:04:58: I have to get a meaning from it or that there is static meaning for the poem but in many ways there isn't.

00:05:06: You can enter a poem at any point And let one line One image One cadence of rhythm and a poetry just opens something up in you.

00:05:19: And so that's how I've been engaging with poetry as prayer, with other

00:05:24: people.".

00:05:25: Now i feel like a lot of people these days are almost intimidated by poetry.

00:05:31: So there was this poetry from the past ancient books classical literature...and then there is very modern way of expressing things.

00:05:44: but Poetry, really seems to me has lost a bit of ground.

00:05:50: So why do you think that's the case?

00:05:52: and what is the entry point?

00:05:54: To get back into it

00:05:56: I Think having studied creative writing in an as an undergraduate.

00:06:01: There's a whole world of that poets tradition and history And its all has its place.

00:06:07: but i think It Has Its Place at The Cost Of Excluding sort of The rest of us the common person.

00:06:16: in some ways, that's what I think an introduction.

00:06:19: I talk about this unlearning.

00:06:21: I learned that concept from Richard war when I studied with him.

00:06:25: He is a person who really says we have to learn certain things and so even creating a new concept of poetry.

00:06:35: When I worked with kids, that was the school library for twenty years they didn't have all this encumbrance about poetry.

00:06:42: They just laughed at lines or liked sounds like skips and drips and moments and doughnuts.

00:06:49: And they loved language The way it made their body feel.

00:06:54: They enjoyed it.

00:06:56: So i went back to them.

00:06:59: My poems though they are deep.

00:07:03: They're accessible, they're accessible.

00:07:07: you're not sitting there trying to heavily decode a poem and I think that is the place for academic poetry.

00:07:17: so people have different intentions with poetry.

00:07:20: So i think to reclaim it just invite yourself.

00:07:25: enjoy Let me see of a line, let me see if an image.

00:07:29: Let Me See Of A Metaphore and Let Me Se If This Just Speaks To Me In A Very Very Simple Way.

00:07:36: And Let It Be That!

00:07:37: Let it be that!

00:07:39: So I think there's something really lovely.

00:07:43: when i read this very simple poem from my book called in the turning breath off My Eyes Do More Than See.

00:07:54: Recognize The Spring Morning.

00:07:57: Glimpse the lilac.

00:07:59: It is none other than God.

00:08:03: Show me the undivided way.

00:08:06: Water below waves Unbroken air Union.

00:08:13: Preserve Me My heart in the turning of winter to spring.

00:08:19: Mud-soaked, irradiant love Wildflowers dress The empty hills Dots of orange poppies and purple irises.

00:08:32: Oh, how such beauty arrives after a long stormy season!

00:08:39: After the fear-filled nights Wind rattling The thin window paints.

00:08:46: Teach me How I am known Inside this knowing on a steamed up window.

00:09:00: Let me remember what my selves hold, that the sun ,the uber driver .

00:09:07: The breeze and I we are all of one substance

00:09:15: divine.".

00:09:18: So then after i read that...I just invite person find word..find an image....that might speak to you And then you just can sit quietly with that word and see what it might awaken in You like the undivided way, and just relax into That.

00:09:38: Invite yourself to See if that opens up anything?

00:09:43: Then I do invite people Into bringing that longing or that prayer into whatever is God for them!

00:09:52: The last.

00:09:53: they Just rest in that...and then thats all.

00:09:57: So its very simple.

00:09:59: You take something you read.

00:10:01: Take a line, an image and just let it soak into your moment to see if that awakens anything in you?

00:10:10: And then you just let go of the moment of quiet.

00:10:13: It's

00:10:15: like contemplation when you're drawing they are depicting a lot of images on your poetry.

00:10:21: Yes simple images every day.

00:10:24: Images emotions.

00:10:26: so my poems I feel as I've been sharing them, that they have... They're very accessible to people because they talk about our ordinary experience which is really where it's all happening.

00:10:39: In the car a night when you might feel some fear looking at the wildflowers The mud after the rains of spring.

00:10:47: these are everyday experiences and its in our every day experiences that things awaken That we know life These very concrete experiences that we're having in the body, In our life.

00:11:05: In nature with each other... In everyday I often tell people That i have a spiritual direction.

00:11:13: Your spiritual life isn't another Life It's this life!

00:11:18: I started off being A very cognitive person and then I discovered spirituality for me And that is about twenty five years ago For about Ten years, fifteen years maybe even.

00:11:31: I considered myself to be a really spiritual person and was into healing.

00:11:35: Had lot of interactions with other healers or very spiritual people And somehow lost the connection there.

00:11:46: So somehow i felt this is no longer my world and turned back in more cognitive.

00:11:55: Now, I'm on the quest probably.

00:12:00: Like what could be a spirituality for me without the whole let-me call it woohoo and then more grounded spiritualities?

00:12:10: So the question to you is... What is spirituality to you?

00:12:14: how would you describe if...?

00:12:15: I really appreciate your description because It shows that its not stagnant.

00:12:22: So you're not going to just arrive, I've got it on here.

00:12:26: And so i really love the way you were honest in your journey about okay something like their seasons and our spirituality sometimes where and tool give ourselves the freedom as something that will grow and change with us, And God is a dynamic participatory energy That we're connecting to not something static.

00:12:53: So I think.

00:12:54: for me spirituality Is just what you are talking about.

00:12:58: It's the journey of sincere longing and seeking For connection Deep connection to self, to others.

00:13:12: To nature...to all of life and to the source of

00:13:16: life.".

00:13:17: That sounds wonderful!

00:13:20: The question that immediately arises is can this also be or become a form of escape from what really is?

00:13:32: From reality?

00:13:33: From whatever happens around us?

00:13:36: Yeah, for me never.

00:13:38: Spirituality like I said spirituality is my life.

00:13:41: so spirituality when i was at work in the library spirituality Is here?

00:13:46: My house with my husband spirituality is volunteering At a food bank.

00:13:52: So I don't separate and I think true spirituality does not separate.

00:13:58: It really seeks a wholeness it seeks an integration.

00:14:04: I guess, i am a person of service.

00:14:07: So to me spirituality and service to the good of the whole are inseparable for me.

00:14:13: And so what I appreciate though What you're saying is there sometimes that we might need To withdraw more and soak in?

00:14:22: That's okay But to always be coming back and checking In with ourselves and to Me spirituality as a connected sense.

00:14:35: So I always ask myself, how is my spirituality serving and connecting?

00:14:41: So the intent behind this rather like a form of embracing, connecting as you call it.

00:14:51: Rather than... And i have experienced that.

00:14:55: That's why probably what was drawn.

00:14:59: I'm enlightened and i know better than everyone else what's going on.

00:15:04: And it separates

00:15:05: you?

00:15:06: Yes, yes yeah...and that is around!

00:15:10: I know exactly what your saying but I really appreciate- and think of a word- What Is Your Intention?

00:15:19: That's important to check in with me.

00:15:23: You noticed something felt off balance eventually to you.

00:15:29: And your like, this doesn't feel as though I'm in harmony with the whole and you checked yourself on it?

00:15:35: Then then left the shore!

00:15:38: So just leaving the shore is a constant movement.

00:15:43: Like right now i am going to leave the shore period...I think if we begin see our spirituality living give ourselves freedom for that

00:15:54: Living also Opening up to new experiences, to new forms of observing.

00:16:06: To new forms experiencing the world.

00:16:09: Yes, experiencing the world.

00:16:11: Exactly and maybe it could be even new forms of practice in connection.

00:16:17: That's why I'm finding that this practice with poetry is actually an opening for a lot Of people like.

00:16:24: i have some People who've been journeying With me.

00:16:28: at first they were so I'm not a poetry person, but as time has gone on and they've been engaging with the book And doing these simple contemplative practice with this what's-a-book?

00:16:39: They're like oh Yeah This is accessible to me.

00:16:44: This isn't for those people and so i think it part of even With our spiritual life is reclaiming just reclaiming It

00:16:55: yeah.

00:16:56: So What does your practice look like on a daily basis?

00:17:00: For me, I do engage in a form of meditation called centering prayer.

00:17:08: It's it's a Christian form of mediation and i do find that some kind of quieting practice every day is really important for me to just connect more deeply within so i can live from that place not just surface reacting all the time.

00:17:26: So I would say some kind of quieting practicing practice mainly centering prayer.

00:17:31: and then i do enjoy lexio this simple way Of reading, I could read anything.

00:17:35: I can read maybe a little snippet from the mystics or even a poem Or?

00:17:41: And I love to just take A word That speaks To me and play with it.

00:17:47: Just Say oh let This Word sit in Me What Might It be opening up?

00:17:53: and Then I Do Really Enjoy Journal writing, I love just jotting and i like to do it by hand.

00:17:59: There's something about that experience of actually physically moving my hand on a page And I give myself a lot of freedom To write in lists...to write..I don't write all paragraphs at All.

00:18:13: I give Myself Freedom for That so It is more playful.

00:18:17: Then I have say Something thats really important to me Is trying to connect with the natural world.

00:18:24: somehow, whatever that could be is really important.

00:18:28: And then my day-to-day spiritual life is just... My home life caring for myself, caring for my husband, caring food and well being in those kinds of things.

00:18:44: Yeah Another question comes up because I know you live the San Francisco area.

00:18:48: That's a very vibrant energetic young areas.

00:18:54: How can you cope with that energy and that environment when you are such a spiritual grounded person?

00:19:08: That's such an interesting question because as this is always buzzing, the newest advancements of technology.

00:19:14: The newest restaurant or cocktails so that kind of energy has all always around us.

00:19:21: but there's another and the beauty of people enjoying The Golden Gay Park, which I live nearby.

00:19:30: And i'm around all the time there's.

00:19:32: so...I think as everybody does in the world you find your place and you ask yourself honestly what nurtures me?

00:19:42: What when-what doesn't?

00:19:44: ?and what is mine and what is not

00:19:46: mine?,

00:19:47: and learning to see how we're all pieces As they would say in the living school, what is yours to do?

00:19:56: Take your place.

00:19:57: In The Hall and trust that

00:20:00: I'm being very aware of where you are with environment.

00:20:03: Yes And i like That so much Christine and Being honest about that kind Of Environment that by that energy thats not really Feeding What's deepest me whats more important than Me and then going in the direction or the Place that might.

00:20:22: So I know a lot of people these days feel quite anxious because there is a lot uncertainty and it's growing.

00:20:32: A lot of also feel disconnected, a lot are working with.

00:20:37: they almost want to withdraw from the human world and cling on to animals.

00:20:51: What kind of simple practice would you offer someone who is feeling this anxiousness and this uncertainty these days?

00:21:02: Yeah, I think something that's really simple.

00:21:07: Is just inviting people into their breath And it doesn't mean has to be like a formal breath practice like Pranayama or Something Like That but she's like A Simple Way To just allow them to Just connect.

00:21:24: Just feel some connection within themselves and even a moment of quiet.

00:21:31: And it's just so I do that a lot with the people i work With we just Even if its for minute, just breathing in.

00:21:42: I know I am breathing In.

00:21:47: So thats very simple.

00:21:49: and then another one is sometimes just feeling Your body, like feeling your feet on whatever they're touching.

00:21:57: Feeling you back.

00:21:59: Feeling the air in your face.

00:22:02: Another practice that I've been learning which has helped me with anxiety is also just this practice called orientation Which it's very simple where You look around Where are you?

00:22:15: You don't judge It But there's a lamp and chair And window And the desk, and I feel all of air on my skin.

00:22:27: Coming into The Now...I think that's-and this is something even for me like so much anxiety about what might happen or where all i can't control which is so buzzing?

00:22:38: It just like how do I place myself here?

00:22:43: So those are a few simple practices.

00:22:46: then also I really love the practice of gratitude Just from time to Time.

00:22:52: I'm grateful right now, i'm here and able to talk with Christine.

00:22:57: I am grateful for having my breakfast this morning.

00:23:02: yeah just like very slow at way down because it's... And im in that too!

00:23:10: Im in that..I buzzed & hum on a constant level of anxiety which so then I think which attracts me To these places That can get below or to hold that in a more nurturing way.

00:23:27: Those are few simple things, they don't really take much and you don't have the belief structure of anything like that.

00:23:36: so it's just a human thing which can help your nervous system

00:23:41: And You Don't Need Any Tools So

00:23:44: You Always Have Your Breath With You and your eyes exactly so that you can allow some gratitude, just simple things to bring back into this moment.

00:23:58: Wow!

00:24:01: Thank You So

00:24:02: Much

00:24:03: Kled.

00:24:03: This was wonderful.

00:24:05: Absolutely Wonderful.

00:24:06: You brought me Back in the Present Moment.

00:24:08: My book is Leaving The Shore Experiencing Poetry as Prayer And it's a very Simple Book my Friends.

00:24:16: It's A Very Different type of book.

00:24:18: It's very different from all the other self-help books out there, it made me really curious!

00:24:24: Yeah and that's a wonderful thing right?

00:24:26: Curiosity is a wonderful way to get your energy sort of feeling alive again.

00:24:33: absolutely

00:24:34: beautiful.

00:24:34: thank you so much Christine.

00:24:36: this was so joyful and all the best to you with your work in what you're doing as well.

00:24:41: Thank You Thanks Collette.

00:24:43: have a wonderful life.

00:24:46: Well...

00:24:50: This was Leedwell!

00:24:52: Now, what is the one thing that you're taking away from this episode?

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