Ep 130. How Guided Imagery Can Help Heal Trauma, Grief and Guilt

00:00:00: time doesn't do anything but pass.

00:00:02: Healing is active, if people are going to heal it's because of what they.

00:00:24: Thank you so much, Christine for having me here.

00:00:27: So you are a clinical psychologist with over forty years of experience helping people navigate trauma anxiety grief and emotional challenges.

00:00:38: With more than eighty thousand hours of therapy You have deep understanding what truly supports healing

00:00:47: And he recently wrote the book

00:00:48: The guided imagery cure where you explore how guided imagery can help people process unresolved experiences and release emotional burdens.

00:01:00: Your work challenges the idea that time alone heals trauma, and you emphasize the importance of actively working through difficult experiences.

00:01:10: And you continue to focus on practical ways.

00:01:18: I'm so excited to have you on my show and i am very much looking forward for this conversation.

00:01:24: My first question is already about it because there's an assumption out in the public that we just need to wait long enough, time will heal all wounds!

00:01:38: So your saying its not

00:01:40: a case?

00:01:45: to work with so many people who were traumatized when they were younger, and they're still carrying that until we meet and do something active.

00:01:57: To put that trauma in a better

00:01:59: place.".

00:02:00: And you know what I think is better than just stating that?

00:02:04: Is tell the story or two.

00:02:06: that substantiates what i'm saying.

00:02:09: So if you don't mind... segway right into a story.

00:02:15: So, with thirty-one year old woman comes in to see me and I'm doing the initial interview.

00:02:21: what brings you here thing?

00:02:22: And she says my primary care physician referred me her because i have not responded well any of the antidepressants that he has prescribed for me and said how long had been depressed about.

00:02:40: And she says, oh no not about.

00:02:42: I can tell you the exact day.

00:02:45: it's been twelve years when he was nineteen.

00:02:50: and She tells me this story About her a twelve-year old brother being Her favorite person in the world.

00:03:07: And she thinks, if something ever happened to my brother on my watch I would be horrified.

00:03:17: She finds him and is so relieved but then literally five minutes after he leaves... ...she pulls too far out in traffic and a truck comes and swerves and hits her brother and misses her completely.

00:03:33: It was her fault and her twelve-year old brother is dead.

00:03:38: She said, since that time she has felt horrible.

00:03:42: She's been depressed.

00:03:43: He's been sad...she's been so guilty!

00:03:46: She thinks about him.

00:03:47: he had his whole life ahead and she ruined it with her poor judgment in driving.

00:03:53: So I ask her very early on would you be willing to try a guided imagery technique?

00:04:01: And i find out where do you stand religiously spiritually what do you believe happens after death, and she says I believe in a heaven.

00:04:10: I believe God and Jesus but i'm not really an active religious person...I don't go to church....but I believed that!

00:04:16: I said okay if you're ok with it then I'd like to do a guided imagery..and the point of our imagery is try get into better place for this whole thing And If It's Ok With You We will have a meeting in your mind with your brother, and we'll meet him anywhere you want.

00:04:35: She said I could meet them in heaven or wherever And i said okay.

00:04:39: so My job at that point is to get her relaxed.

00:04:43: So we do five ten minutes of relaxation training?

00:04:46: Then when she's ready... ...I Want Her To Go Someplace Where She Can See & Experience Her Brother.

00:04:54: I'm narrating And I said, I'd like to speak for him.

00:04:58: But I want you hear it as if its coming out of his mouth right?

00:05:02: You can see Him and you could hear.

00:05:04: this is whatever you imagine heaven should look like.

00:05:08: so i speak for them...and say..I have permission to meet with you!

00:05:14: It's beautiful here....i'm happy here well taken care of not hurting or suffering.

00:05:23: But I don't want to think that every time you think about me You're sad and feel bad.

00:05:28: You were my favorite person And we were so close, and i'm happy here?

00:05:33: And I want you To know That one day you'll be Here with Me.

00:05:36: I Don't Know When but We'll Be Together Again.

00:05:39: it's okay!

00:05:40: I Want you to be able to forgive yourself and get on With your life because you have more Life to live.

00:05:47: i needed to be here.

00:05:49: i can't tell you why But I can just tell you we'll be together again, and your life is not over there.

00:05:55: Mine

00:05:56: was.".

00:05:56: And so...I can see she's complying with it—she's crying!

00:06:00: She feels like this is real —she's seeing him.

00:06:04: So that's a trick on the nervous system –like dreams are– but dream is a movie that you wrote directed and starred in…but it's real if you feel while dreaming.

00:06:14: And so in this case, she's feeling and hearing an experiencing him.

00:06:19: He says I want you when you think about me to be happy that we love each other?

00:06:26: We'll be together again because that is how i think of you!

00:06:31: Before he stopped ,I said tell mom there are no curfew here.

00:06:37: I'm pretty happy here.

00:06:38: And, and could see she's smiling when i told her that so bring a back out.

00:06:44: an usually would not bring people out of these things.

00:06:46: they're very quiet.

00:06:48: but i ask them how was it?

00:06:52: one other thing is linked with almost the hundred percent success as we make up.

00:06:57: that was so real.

00:06:58: when they say that then i know what happened.

00:07:01: Not really, but in their head it happened and therefore its real to the nervous system.

00:07:05: So a week later she comes in And of course I want know how that went...I usually ask people To write out what was like for them because even though they feel Like i knew everything cause i was talking..i don't Really Know What Happened In The Silence Of Their Head.

00:07:23: But She Says Dr Kortman....I Can't Get That To A Bad Place If I Try.

00:07:28: When I Think About My Brother Now I see him happy and well.

00:07:32: I am finally okay with

00:07:34: that.".

00:07:35: And so, that wasn't because time passed!

00:07:38: Time passed.

00:07:39: twelve years... ...and all she did was go deeper into depression.

00:07:43: No healing.

00:07:44: She's going to spend the rest of her life blaming herself... ...ruining her life because she ruined his life.

00:07:50: That is what it means.

00:07:52: But instead we tweaked something there not just as a concept, but she experienced it.

00:07:59: She felt that which is what?

00:08:01: He's well now he's healthy and happy.

00:08:04: I'll be with him again.

00:08:06: there's hope.

00:08:07: i got more to do here.

00:08:08: better get going wasted twelve years when he's fine where we are.

00:08:13: the only other thing you said me that day would you'd willing.

00:08:17: this was my mother that was her son.

00:08:21: so I have all these stories of people who were stuck.

00:08:28: Time doesn't do anything but pass, healing is active.

00:08:31: if People are going to heal it's because Of what they Do with the time and The most active ingredient in Healing Is letting go.

00:08:40: you could call It acceptance.

00:08:42: You can Call it forgiveness Making peace With releasing whatever you want To call But its the same thing.

00:08:49: I have to say goodbye.

00:08:50: To something, i Have to release Something in order to heal.

00:08:54: Wow You mentioned the nervous system several times and i'm really interested In everything nervous system especially The autonomous nervous system.

00:09:02: Can you share with us what actually happens?

00:09:06: When a person gets traumatized And how that changes then With the guided imagery?

00:09:13: Yeah recognize That I'm a psychologist, I am not medical person.

00:09:19: I've read on this and have some knowledge but don't claim to be an expert in the nervous system.

00:09:26: What i have read what understand is that changes take place after trauma And we are responding less cognitively when prefrontal cortex or brain more from the amygdala and limbic systems which is more about fight or flight and emotion, and quick igniting of terror.

00:09:48: And what?

00:09:49: one of the main branches of symptoms for post-traumatic stress disorder Is avoidance?

00:09:57: People will avoid that which triggers it.

00:10:01: You know there are symptoms like an exaggerated startle response.

00:10:05: this week In America, it's a two hundred and fiftieth celebration of our independence.

00:10:12: And there is going to be fireworks everywhere!

00:10:15: There are gonna be military people avoiding fireworks everywhere because that kind of boom explodes... That triggers memories in the brain and makes them want to hit the floor for cover even though its just beautiful fireworks in the sky.

00:10:34: It not incoming.

00:10:35: So, it's often compared to a hostile takeover of the brain and that makes people inclined not only avoid but experience things very powerfully.

00:10:46: And creates another symptom called hypervigilance where you're overly watchful.

00:10:52: You got in car accident instead being able just drive comfortably looking around frantically because somebody hits your back one time.

00:11:01: when is this going happen again?

00:11:03: The mind remembers.

00:11:05: So we're not responding so much with our prefrontal cortex, or thinking the most evolved center of the brain if you will.

00:11:15: We are reacting to from the emotional area and over... And what guided imagery does often is.

00:11:22: it helps people kind of calm that down—that whole response–and release!

00:11:26: I just have so many stories both in this book but also not because…I had some training in it Chris.

00:11:34: The training, like most of us were taught way back.

00:11:37: when was that?

00:11:38: guided imagery has been around for centuries but we've used it for relaxation.

00:11:44: For insomnia.

00:11:47: you may have watched some of the Olympics in February –the Winter Olympics–but they were talking about people using Guided Imagery to perfect their downhill skiing...to protect their ice skating…people use.

00:12:01: But I started using it for two areas that have been incredibly rewarding.

00:12:08: One of those is trauma and the other one is grief, And so having people say goodbye to People that they've lost and put them in a better place.

00:12:20: So now there's peace about it.

00:12:21: There's what.

00:12:23: how i've used guided imagery chris if i could define It with one word would be closure giving them a sense that what has been so painful is now okay.

00:12:37: I have people say to me, That's done Now and it doesn't mean i brought People back from the death To life or anything like that.

00:12:44: but no!

00:12:45: Now there Is an acceptance going Back to those words i was using.

00:12:48: you accepted You've released your forgiven.

00:12:51: you let go It's ok.

00:12:53: thats how we shut off The stress response.

00:12:55: when the mind Thinks something is Ok it shuts off the stress response.

00:13:01: The stress response begins with arousal, its fight or flight?

00:13:06: It's the alarm reaction.

00:13:07: then goes into resistance where you keep fighting in high gear.

00:13:11: exhaustion disease death!

00:13:13: It doesn't go in a good direction...it only goes towards that and our ...and if does not shut-off on its own mind has to say that is okay.

00:13:22: The mind have to say yeah money comes and money goes or it's not the end of the world.

00:13:27: All right, that is how she thinks... There are a million ways and millions things we have gone through in this course where we shut off the stress response by saying hey what am I going to do?

00:13:38: That does not mind control make peace with them put something in a better place.

00:13:45: Yeah, and what I love about that?

00:13:47: because A lot of the therapies that i got to know is they are looking back at the trauma And trying to get at peace with it.

00:13:54: but What you're doing?

00:13:55: Is almost telling The person To turn around look into the future.

00:13:59: then imagine this.

00:14:01: Imagine the other Person imagine the person That They Are missing In another environment in Another in a Future state.

00:14:10: Would that be correct to say?

00:14:13: And it's also correct to say, I will bring people back to a trauma.

00:14:18: To finish the trauma when that needs to be done.

00:14:22: now you told us already A few examples of who is coming?

00:14:28: So where Is almost the threshold Of whether i need professional Trauma therapy or Whether?

00:14:43: That is a great question, and I want to honor that question by first using an analogy.

00:14:51: And if you talk to AA people—this isn't an analogy there's no correlation—alcoholic synonymous people…and say...I don't know whether or not they should go your meetings but maybe try to moderate my drinking on their own?

00:15:08: They would say it's exactly what we do!

00:15:11: We're open twenty four seven.

00:15:13: go try it on your own.

00:15:14: see how you do.

00:15:15: if You can't stop.

00:15:16: If It's still a problem the first step in AA is Recognizing that I'm powerless over alcohol.

00:15:23: my life has become unmanageable, but if you could manage it On Your Own you don't need us.

00:15:28: we are here for others.

00:15:29: so its The same kind of thing.

00:15:31: let's get away from the analogy and say Imagery.

00:15:36: you Could Do Whatever you want with Your Own imagery.

00:15:39: The reason I like guided imagery as a clinician is because sometimes we're going to get into some hairy places, and it's nice to have an experienced clinician who can help you by guiding you.

00:15:54: To get a good outcome?

00:15:56: It's almost like safety net as well.

00:15:58: that sounds

00:15:58: well said.

00:15:59: yeah i want the person Like.

00:16:04: this is the most challenging thing they're going to do, but it's in the safest room.

00:16:09: They could be and I'm In here with you.

00:16:12: You're not gonna shock me or your not gonna lose Me.

00:16:16: i'm Not Gonna Say i can't Do This.

00:16:17: i'm Going To go Through This.

00:16:19: Whatever It Is We're Holding Hands.

00:16:22: Who are Going in?

00:16:22: Together?

00:16:24: There's a room that has a skull and crossbones over the door.

00:16:27: It says keep out And you and I are stupid enough to go in anyway because we got work, but then we gotta clean That out.

00:16:36: so it really does a tremendous bonding between client and therapist.

00:16:43: But at the upside the potential of the healing is just Really fantastic.

00:16:49: how about us story here?

00:16:50: So This one don't tell anybody, but this person was not a patient.

00:16:56: never has been a patient.

00:16:58: She is a friend.

00:16:59: She used to clean my house.

00:17:00: years ago she moved back To Ohio.

00:17:03: we stayed in touch always been just a friend.

00:17:07: But Christmas night A few three years ago now See and her husband have too much to drink.

00:17:15: they have a fight ba-ba-ba.

00:17:17: He's just Said something nasty and she says something like merry effin Christmas to you, too.

00:17:25: He goes in the next room when he blows his brains out And she is devastated Like the worst christmas thing.

00:17:33: You could ever imagine.

00:17:35: so maybe it's a year-and-a-half later?

00:17:38: She's coming down on vacation and she's just not doing well.

00:17:43: I say to her Do you want to try?

00:17:46: And she says, yeah.

00:17:47: I said come on over for dinner.

00:17:49: my wife will make something and We'll do whatever we do On the couch in imagery and then stay for dinner which in retrospect if it didn't If It didn't go well i don't know how receptive She would have been To the lasagna but that's another story.

00:18:04: But anyway She trusts me and she trusted Me and we did The imagery and She wanted to talk to him in a way where I could hear her.

00:18:16: It wasn't just an assailance of her head and i spoke for him, And said...I have regretted that decision!

00:18:27: Im so sorry I did it to you..and I had drank too much and was just an impulsive stupid decision and im really sorry.

00:18:37: This is so interesting to me.

00:18:39: She says but didn t u love me?

00:18:44: That was the big part.

00:18:46: you did this because you and I said Of course, I loved you.

00:18:51: It was me that sometimes I hated.

00:18:54: it Was me?

00:18:55: That's some times I wanted to destroy.

00:18:57: i always loved You.

00:18:59: that was so powerful for her.

00:19:02: And Since that time she wrote something about The experience then its in the book.

00:19:09: But since that time should be first thing She says is I could breathe again for the first time since he died.

00:19:17: I feel like i could breathe again.

00:19:20: and then second thing is she went out, started this survivor program For people who have survived suicides And raising money from those people.

00:19:33: they just had a year.

00:19:35: They raised twenty something thousand dollars in their first years ceremony and she sent me the video.

00:19:42: And I was just, oh that's so beautiful!

00:19:46: In my mind there are five stages in healing right?

00:19:48: It is another one of these things you won't read anywhere.

00:19:51: it's kind of my own construction after all this hours but The fifth stage is reframing.

00:19:58: So on the Fifth Stage not only take a terrible thing You've kinda worked through But now your using to make the world better place And that's what she is doing.

00:20:11: I could see in the room, there are all these people who have survived suicide some way or another and they're all together celebrating one year of.

00:20:19: we were in this together with so many hugs and tears.

00:20:23: We love you!

00:20:24: What a beautiful thing She did.

00:20:27: It ends up honoring.

00:20:31: You died on that day but So did i

00:20:35: And it turns the event into something meaningful.

00:20:38: That's

00:20:38: to reframing.

00:20:40: You take the trauma and you turn it in, you know your work through It.

00:20:44: then you turned it into The best thing that ever happened?

00:20:47: So is the woman I just told you about because you take the worst Thing Ever and you make a world of better place as A result.

00:20:55: now the work you've described with this woman Reminded me a lot of Constellation Work.

00:21:00: where do you see the parallels?

00:21:02: there

00:21:03: i Do And one of the things you would hear someone like me say is, You feel free to borrow from every school-of thought.

00:21:11: that makes sense.

00:21:12: That works!

00:21:14: We all use cognitive behavioral in certain ways and with Cognitive Behavioral they have Things Like This.

00:21:21: They Use this Thing Called Systematic Desensitization Where You Take People Through A Phobia.

00:21:27: But...and it's an imagery.

00:21:29: It's an Imagery And Fritz Perls and his Gestalt School of Therapy influenced me so much because he would say, people come in with unfinished business.

00:21:40: Your job is to help them finish the business!

00:21:44: I want people to tell me that when i ask him about how The Childhood thing we worked on years ago... How was it?

00:21:51: They said you know We finished That Years Ago.

00:21:55: That's not why I'm back.

00:21:57: I am back because my husband has MS and he is a pain in the ass, so we need you to help me cope with him!

00:22:03: We finished the childhood stuff So our job was helping people finish.

00:22:09: How do you know?

00:22:09: it isn't over?

00:22:10: It still hurts, causes anxiety or avoidance.

00:22:16: It manifests itself.

00:22:17: I'm thinking of a guy now who had an issue with abandonment.

00:22:20: He was he would not allow himself to be close to anybody.

00:22:24: and then he tells me that his brother committed suicide.

00:22:27: And then six months later as mother did, and he was enraged.

00:22:32: But he buried it all and he took it out in all of these relationships.

00:22:36: So what do we have to do?

00:22:37: We had to get him unstuck by going back and i didn't use imagery In that one.

00:22:43: i said i want you To write a letter your brother and he thought it was so hokey.

00:22:47: He's a high-shot lawyer, but he said... It were so powerful that the emotions just came out!

00:22:54: So hurt, so wounded, so betrayed, so abandoned and raged.

00:22:59: And you needed to do all of this in order for him finally release.

00:23:02: That is what I mean by time doesn't heal all wounds.

00:23:06: Time has passed.

00:23:07: We had to go back there Now..I

00:23:11: know we could go on forever.

00:23:13: Last question here After your forty years and eighty thousand therapy hours, this sounds so incredible.

00:23:20: What has surprised you most about how people heal?

00:23:25: That's a great question too.

00:23:26: what surprises me the most is how quickly and easily they can do it after years of trying to avoid it.

00:23:34: They could just understand that with a little bit of courage and focus.

00:23:39: It's like my daughter room.

00:23:41: It's a disaster, but if she just would put the time and energy in She can clean it out.

00:23:47: And she feels so much better.

00:23:50: But every day that she avoids doing it Just makes her feel worse about herself or life or room.

00:24:00: People have to be brave enough To face whatever is not finished.

00:24:05: And so if you could imagine, let's say you got some kind of an abrasion on your arm and every time you walk around or somebody accidentally bumps into it.

00:24:15: It was like oh that hurt so much!

00:24:17: Then finally go to the doctor.

00:24:18: then doctors said Oh my god thats really infected.

00:24:23: You say what do we have to do?

00:24:26: I'm glad you came in because If you don't do anything this infection will continue to get worse.

00:24:35: But I ask for good news.

00:24:36: If you let me, i have disinfectant and I can scrub this thing out.

00:24:41: it's going to hurt but I can scrub this things out then It'll be better!

00:24:46: Then You Can Keep Your Arm And You Can Be Fine Again.

00:24:50: So You Agree Because You Don't Want Your Arm Chopped Up And I Go To Touch Your Arm With A Disinfectant.

00:24:56: You Cloud That burns, are you crazy?

00:24:59: I'm sorry here.

00:25:00: Bite down on this!

00:25:01: I'll give you some kind of painkiller whatever we have to do but i gotta scrub that out.

00:25:06: and then having done that putting the band-aids on what you find out afterwards as you reach a place where you could do This hasn't even hurt It's healed.

00:25:16: it's better.

00:25:17: its fine.

00:25:19: So act on it as quickly as possible And get help.

00:25:22: for because what I'm hearing is that it's always like the doctor.

00:25:28: You're a Doctor for the mind, you are the person who is the Doctor of the body and its' always good to have someone Who is an expert To help people

00:25:37: stop avoiding whatever It Is thats hurting.

00:25:39: you face it appropriately find somebody That you trust or connect with.

00:25:47: I tell people when it comes to a therapist, you have to trust them.

00:25:50: You have to like them and feel safe with them.

00:25:52: connected?

00:25:54: They get it!

00:25:55: With your psychiatrist they just don't understand medication.

00:26:00: You do not need to be best friend kind of thing... With the therapist.

00:26:05: this is safe for anyone who needs help.

00:26:09: And also i would love know that they care.

00:26:13: My first co-author in my very is a guy named Harold Shinitsuki.

00:26:18: And he would say that when he was at Johns Hopkins, they would say your patients don't care what you know until they know that you care.

00:26:28: and then when you care about them and they know their important to you than it's possible to go anywhere with them?

00:26:37: I try to emphasize that...I laugh.

00:26:42: We have to have fun.

00:26:44: They know about crazy things in my life, they know that this is a relationship.

00:26:49: also and I want it to be... This is the safest room at the same time.

00:26:55: Scary because of what they bring in.

00:26:56: safe because how i'm going to cherish them help them promote them.

00:27:02: there's no judgment of them.

00:27:05: There are no saying snarky things put downs on me.

00:27:12: There's only understanding of them and then Challenging them to take things on in being the best version Of themselves.

00:27:20: And other than in psychoanalysis it doesn't take years, but he can just Take one session.

00:27:28: All right this One is an incredible story To me.

00:27:32: even to this day.

00:27:33: a woman comes to see Me speak at A local church.

00:27:37: she goes home Says to her husband who Is hundred Years old I want you to see this guy, maybe he can finally help me with those dreams of yours.

00:27:47: He has these dreams from World War II where he's thrashing about in the bed screaming yelling and she doesn't enjoy sleeping within him!

00:28:01: And so i have a session with them.

00:28:03: and they say yeah...I had that same nightmare all the time.

00:28:07: I was flying an Obama plane and I was shot down over Romania.

00:28:12: And, I was okay...I was the prisoner of war.

00:28:14: but what really torments me is that i left my buddy on a plane..and I feel as guilty today!

00:28:24: Talk about time doesn't heal....I feel as Guilty Today as eighty years ago when it happened.

00:28:31: so I say maybe we try this guided imagery thing?

00:28:35: Of course.

00:28:35: So The Guy Comes To My House.

00:28:37: It was during the pandemic and he has to climb upstairs.

00:28:41: The poor guy climbing up, but he gets to the second floor with the couch.

00:28:45: He lays down.

00:28:47: I get him relaxed We're going into the movies And we're gonna watch being shot Down out of the plane another time because we're Gonna go and finish this okay?

00:28:58: i don't know what happens Until the next week.

00:29:01: and he writes me This letter.

00:29:03: and What happened is when he saw the movie, he was back on the plane and he saw that his buddy was already dead.

00:29:12: That's why he didn't rescue him.

00:29:15: but for eighty years he had this misimpression... ...that he abandoned them which was- The word in psychology as ego dystonic meaning not okay with a self.

00:29:26: how could I have left him to die while i jumped into my safety?

00:29:30: so everything made sense in that moment, finally.

00:29:35: And he came out of there and said it's done!

00:29:38: I didn't do any disservice to let him go.

00:29:41: His wife demonstrated... He was sleeping through the night.

00:29:45: So what else have you got?

00:29:48: He told me a couple other things but nothing.

00:29:51: That is the big thing.

00:29:53: You are one more interesting people than we've ever worked with so why don't make an appointment for eight years?

00:30:05: That was the end of that.

00:30:06: It's just a beautiful story, how he was stuck in one place and had to go get unstuck!

00:30:13: He even had inaccurate information on his mind... ...that wasn't okay with him.

00:30:18: He couldn't imagine being the kind of soldier who would leave his buddy there to die.

00:30:23: Turns out it wasn't but he believed he did for eighty percent of his life.

00:30:30: Wow thank you so much for helping all these people, for sharing these stories because what I feel now is you're giving people hope that even if they have to go through the verse experience there's a way out.

00:30:43: There is a future...for everyone.

00:30:46: Chris!

00:30:47: You said something that i so appreciate Because I will tell People The best anti-depressant in the world Is Hope.

00:30:55: When people become depressed most often..I can trace it back with them to the perception of hopelessness.

00:31:03: When a person loses hope, they sink like a rock in water.

00:31:08: but an injection of hope and they can magically ascend.

00:31:13: this is okay there's.

00:31:14: we can do powerlessness so hard for people!

00:31:18: There's nothing I could never do when they lose hope right?

00:31:21: So it's so important to have hope.

00:31:24: wonderful thank you for giving The World Hope.

00:31:29: Thank you so much.

00:31:30: You are a delight to talk, too And I'm really glad we had a chance to meet this morning.

00:31:36: This was lead.

00:31:37: well.

00:31:38: now What is the one thing that your taking away from?

00:31:40: This

00:31:41: episode.

00:31:42: please share in the comments below

00:31:43: and do share The podcast with your friends and family but only if you like it.