Ep 127. How to Turn Tension Into Better Decisions

00:00:00: If your point of view is right, my point of you is wrong.

00:00:03: And that's not true at all.

00:00:06: but what we learn about polarities and interdependence is they're both right!

00:00:11: They can both be right and have benefits and get the positive outcomes.

00:00:18: Welcome to the podcast interview today, Dr.

00:00:28: Tracy Christofferson and Michelle.

00:00:30: Oh I should have asked how to pronounce your last name.

00:00:34: Troset!

00:00:35: Okay, Tracy-Michelle welcome to Leadwell...I'm really looking forward to this conversation because you both challenge a very common assumption in leadership.

00:00:46: most leaders think that conflict is something to minimize, maybe even avoid or resolve as quickly as possible.

00:00:55: And you suggest something different?

00:00:58: You suggest tension isn't a problem to eliminate but polarity to manage.

00:01:04: and I think it's deeply relevant especially right now because many leaders are exhausted teams fragile psychological safety is talked about everywhere And yet this agreement still feels risky.

00:01:19: So today I'd love to explore what it really means to embrace tension, not as drama or ego but a source of resilience and clarity and sustainable performance.

00:01:31: so let's dive right in.

00:01:34: Sounds great!

00:01:36: Yeah thank you for having us Christine.

00:01:40: Tracy and I. we learned about polarities Our work together as leaders in the field, we worked together for over twenty years.

00:01:48: Transforming healthcare actually is how it got our start.

00:01:50: We met at hospital orientation forty-years ago And and we recognize that there was a tendency to always approach challenges In conflict As problem to fix right away.

00:02:03: To your point people want move into resolve It they're not comfortable with.

00:02:06: then Then really learned That its Not about A Problem.

00:02:11: There's Really Unavoidable Polarity that exist in all of our leadership cultures and work cultures.

00:02:17: And, that's the work we do today!

00:02:19: So how would you define polarity?

00:02:23: Yeah so a polarity is an interdependent pair of points-of-view or perspectives values.

00:02:31: oftentimes they appear to be opposite or contradictory to each other but both if you want to reach a greater purpose.

00:02:41: Now let me give you an example.

00:02:43: that happens probably in homes with parents, okay?

00:02:48: So you have the one parent who is all about fun and freedom wants their child be able make decisions and enjoy life And then your other parent.

00:02:57: maybe it's little bit more around control and safety.

00:03:02: They want kids remain safe.

00:03:04: Those are two different points of view, or perspectives.

00:03:06: Two different values and there's a tension that exists between the two.

00:03:10: so whether you ARE a parent who has that experience OR you've been a child who HAS lived in at home like THAT!

00:03:17: It can seem like conflict, but they're just different points of view and perspective.

00:03:22: And over time in order to have well-developed children that could make decisions on their own... They need that freedom!

00:03:31: But also know there are limits for too much freedom.

00:03:35: it's chaos if there is too much restriction right?

00:03:39: They're not able to step into who they are and grow, evolve as people.

00:03:43: So that's just a kind of an example.

00:03:44: That happens in the home And there are hundreds.

00:03:49: In all aspects Of our lives and communities and organizations We experience personally Even activity and rest is another polarity That we always have balance.

00:04:01: You need times of rest To rejuvenate yourself to strengthen yourself and yet you need to remain active for the same purposes.

00:04:12: So I mean, when there are two people that there is polarity.

00:04:17: How about in a corporate environment where they're usually one leader and the team?

00:04:23: Where do polarities show up at that setting?

00:04:26: They

00:04:26: show if their too.

00:04:27: so some great examples of organizational polarities are hierarchy-the hierarchy exists.

00:04:34: also partnerships exist in an organization your horizontal vertical infrastructure.

00:04:40: But if you're really being led by someone who is very dominant in the hierarchy pole and energy, then so many people live on being part of just very directive decision making my way or the highway.

00:04:57: So as a leader, it's really important to know what your preference poll is?

00:05:03: To Know What Your Dominant Strength Is Or Poll Is because others around you can actually experience The Shadow Side Of That and that's another reason It's so helpful.

00:05:13: What's my preference?

00:05:14: poll in every polarity, but so that's one example.

00:05:18: There is also individual and team as another corporate polarity managing and leading?

00:05:23: That's a polarity you can't just do leading without managing And You Can't Do Managing Without Leading.

00:05:29: So those are some corporate examples.

00:05:31: Hmm...and

00:05:32: then when As I said When i know My Polls as A Leader Would Your Recommendation Be To Look For Like the opposite or, or another poll in my team so that I can have probably as much not only polarity but there's much variety.

00:05:56: My teammates possible is.

00:05:57: would that be yes?

00:06:00: Yes So we want to have a good balance of differing perspectives.

00:06:05: now when you have a preference pull any other position point of view or value can appear to be threatening because historically.

00:06:15: We have been taught to think in terms of either, Or if I'm right you're wrong?

00:06:21: If this is the right answer than anything else's The Wrong Answer.

00:06:24: and so we are in This kind of get grow up In this dichotomous thinking.

00:06:29: So we often Think our preference poll Is the pole.

00:06:32: low way Tension and conflict arise when our perspective is challenged because We are in this dichotomous thinking.

00:06:41: if I accept your point of view.

00:06:43: I have to give up mine.

00:06:46: If you're a point-of-view, it's right my point of views wrong And that's not true at all.

00:06:52: What's what we learn about polarities and interdependence is that they're both right?

00:06:57: And They can both be right, and they both have benefits.

00:07:00: We Can get the positive outcomes of both and you need to sit in that tension knowing That it just a different point of view, a different way to look at things.

00:07:10: And so the more we can surround ourselves with the opposing perspective or contradictory perspective, The more were gonna grow and evolve on better chance We're going have of achieving our shared purpose than if only focus On one of those perspectives.

00:07:28: give all attention Back to Michelle's example of directive decision making and participative Decision Making Right?

00:07:36: If everything is directive, we're missing out on all of the different experiences and wisdom.

00:07:42: And points of view that other people have that can drive a different decision and bring us to a different outcome.

00:07:50: so That's an example why that's really important.

00:07:52: just surround yourself.

00:07:54: To sit in it, you need a couple of other skills.

00:07:57: You need to be able engage and meaningful dialogue with others so really uncover what our differences are why we believe What We Believe And we need to have healthy relationships.

00:08:08: Those two things together help us to embrace these polarities and have a polarity mindset.

00:08:14: Then In addition to that I would add i also Need the ability to know when to make A decision.

00:08:20: at The end Of Today as a leader I have to make a decision so well yes, i can listen everyone and i can involve them.

00:08:29: Make sure that i hear what they say.

00:08:34: but at the end of today it's also important then take this decision and really also stand up for it.

00:08:45: yeah thats true And it's

00:08:48: both.

00:08:48: It's both, right?

00:08:49: There are times where it's important for you as the leader to be the decision maker and there are times when a team can decide which direction we're going in.

00:08:58: so its really getting that clarity an understanding of When is each appropriate and may depend on context For what your doing now.

00:09:07: but always both end.

00:09:09: there will be time for participative at some point.

00:09:13: during covid Right, that was a time of command and control.

00:09:17: A lot of directive decision-making.

00:09:18: there wasn't the opportunity for the participative.

00:09:22: That wasn't appropriate in that context.

00:09:26: And I love to point out you brought up family before because it's same as parents.

00:09:31: i want listen.

00:09:32: my children Because yes they have personality As well and their opinions They had to be heard At end today need make decisions And the very same is true because I work a lot with people and their animals.

00:09:46: Mm-hmm,

00:09:48: I am so

00:09:49: high.

00:09:49: I really am an advocate for the animals because they are personalities as well.

00:09:54: They have personalities that haven't opinion and I listen.

00:09:57: but at the end of today i sometimes need to make the decision Because they can't or right?

00:10:03: It's not.

00:10:03: it's necessary To keep them safe.

00:10:06: As we said before

00:10:07: Yeah, yeah.

00:10:08: And you know, Christine one of the things that I love about this work and we wrote all about it in our book Polarity Intelligence The Missing Logic and Leadership is You often think That majority rules too when your decision-making It brings you to that voting place or wanting to garner everyone that does Think like you.

00:10:28: but When you understand how polarities actually Work?

00:10:34: Maybe the few voices or that one animals voice is equally as important.

00:10:40: As everyone else's and you become very sensitized to that, And so you listen deeper You may say to someone in a meeting Or your child?

00:10:48: You're pretty quiet about this topic What do you think about it So that you're drawing out all perspectives.

00:10:55: That's really helpful because we are just saying How many yeses, how many nos and going with the decision.

00:11:01: And not realizing there's gonna be a negative consequence because we're not hearing that other perspective.

00:11:06: now I get it.

00:11:08: dad Pension is then healthy Because yeah We might have and i loved up to the american saying we agree To disagree so we might Have different opinions but we can still Be friends.

00:11:20: So hopefully

00:11:22: Yeah.

00:11:24: But There

00:11:24: are people

00:11:26: That

00:11:26: I feel that they're almost love conflict and also, They can become a bit destructive.

00:11:33: So how can i have kind of leader?

00:11:35: How can even someone in the family distinguish between A healthy tension and a destructive conflict?

00:11:44: well if it is a healthy tension then we actually need both points of view to get into a different place.

00:11:53: Not all conflict is a polarity, there are sometimes two your point where people aren't just being contradictory too push your buttons or poke the bearer whatever you want.

00:12:05: So I think it's when you understand that there is...that the two are connected to each other, right?

00:12:12: They're bound together with an energy and You have to understand a little bit about how polarities work.

00:12:17: That they work in a dance.

00:12:19: so you know When you can recognize that these are actually interdependent pair of values or points a view, our perspective that we absolutely do have to have both.

00:12:31: Then it's about using healthy relationships and meaningful dialogue To get a deeper understanding Of that person's point-of-view Or why they're being so contradictory right?

00:12:44: What is it oftentimes if They've had an experience that you haven't had And often times they've experienced I'm living in the what we call the downside Maybe your point of view they've had a bad experience when they've gone down that row before and they're not going there again And they are just gonna put their feet down, and they'll just I'm not moving right?

00:13:04: That resistance.

00:13:06: So whenever you meet up with that kind of resistance.

00:13:09: There's wisdom there.

00:13:11: It's not something to just say oh They're just being difficult You know let's just let's Just move on without them.

00:13:17: it's about exploring in using those tools, those skills of dialogue asking deep questions.

00:13:24: Tell us what your experience has been about this?

00:13:27: What maybe do you know that we don't know?

00:13:29: getting them to advocate for their perspective there point-of-view why they're feeling resistant.

00:13:35: That's where you're gonna really learn and it's easier To engage in a dialog when the relationship is based on a shared purpose whether that's at home or in the organization, wherever you are.

00:13:48: We're here for a purpose and there is a shared purpose.

00:13:51: when we were together as a group And keeping to focus on That!

00:13:55: We Are Here To Get To A Certain Place And Really Kind Of Investigating If This Is Just Somebody Who'S Being Contradictory Or Do They Really Have Something important to share.

00:14:07: that will help us move forward in a different way.

00:14:10: And like Michelle said, sometimes it's that one voice... That one person can bring up perspective nobody else had and they could totally change the direction of where you're headed what your doing?

00:14:21: You mentioned communication skills being able listen and ask questions And I love that because always when, when i was teaching at business school.

00:14:31: I would ask my students there what do you think is the most important skill a manager or leader has to have and they came up with everything in time?

00:14:40: I'm an advocate of saying You need To be able to ask The right questions and listen.

00:14:46: Thanks for thanks for saying That thanks for confirming that.

00:14:50: What

00:14:50: other skills and competencies Do Do you feel a leader that can live with this polarity and fully leverage the polarity?

00:15:01: What kind of skills and competencies do they need to

00:15:03: have?".

00:15:04: Well,

00:15:04: we wrote about meaningful dialogue in healthy relationships because we just definitely recognize knowing about polarities is not enough.

00:15:11: And I would say one of the first principles on both those skill sets always developing the skill set as what is my intention in this situation, or explaining to another person.

00:15:25: My intention and asking you this question is because I want understand you more or whatever it is?

00:15:32: And the power of intention cannot be

00:15:34: underestimated.".

00:15:35: Again both healthy relationships and meaningful dialogue start with that as a core principle.

00:15:41: for

00:15:44: And I love that because you also have to ask yourself, well what is my intention?

00:15:49: Yes.

00:15:50: Yeah so i think another skill is leading your self.

00:15:55: So before you can lead anybody else You have to be in good relationship with yourself.

00:16:01: You have to be able to have dialogue with your self really, to really undercover what are my intentions?

00:16:07: What is you know...what's underneath my resistance to another point of view?

00:16:13: and then I would say the other thing is to create psychological safety amongst a team culture where you won't experience somebody just trying to poke the bear, right?

00:16:27: Or being contradictory.

00:16:30: They know they're there together for a purpose.

00:16:32: and I think creating that healthy culture with psychological safety is how we will be in relationship And really setting that expectation, this is who we are and how you will work together.

00:16:53: Then letting it be the guardrails of all conversations or tensions that arise gives everybody an opportunity to explore them... To sit in it and leverage when its beneficial to do so.

00:17:08: You mentioned something very important about psychological safety.

00:17:13: I think the way you said you need to make sure that it's there.

00:17:17: I think its a very hard... thing to do?

00:17:20: To make sure that there is psychological safety,

00:17:23: how can

00:17:23: I create psychological safety for my team.

00:17:26: What do i need to do?

00:17:27: what's the

00:17:27: prerequisite?".

00:17:28: I think you need to let them know that that's what your intention is.

00:17:32: but I think a lot of it comes down to listening and that it's okay to create a shared space for us to learn together... And I think that's so powerful about dialogue!

00:17:43: It's about learning together ...and they don't feel like they share their understanding of something or them questioning of something.

00:17:55: So I think part of it needs to be named and then, a lot of us just culture about that energy you're carrying in welcoming into the space as well.

00:18:08: The other thing is being integral.

00:18:12: So you have to be self-integral.

00:18:14: First, integral with yourself your actions Your statements and then integral with the group And when you set that culture and say this is who in how we are going To be together?

00:18:25: You have to live it to the tenth degree!

00:18:27: You cannot waver from It...you need to know..You Need to Be The Role Model for everybody In That Culture and that Psychological Safety Happens Over Time And it happens through integrity and your actions, demonstrating that I can believe in this.

00:18:47: That is how we are together!

00:18:51: But again...this isn't something the leader owns on their own.

00:18:55: This has to be a group effort or team effort because the leader alone cannot create that container.

00:19:02: It must have been created collectively And that's why I think when you have those guardrails, That's really helpful.

00:19:09: Now another tool we often use with leaders is partnership agreements.

00:19:14: So thats where we say this what you can expect from me and This Is What i need From You & This How We Are Going To Be In Relationship With Each Other.

00:19:22: And THAT GIVES THEM The Opportunity to Come To You & Say THIS IS WHAT YOU TOLD ME.

00:19:28: I COULD RELY ON AND IM NOT GETTING THAT RIGHT NOW.

00:19:31: SO HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY It appears you're going back on your word or why you are acting in a different manner.

00:19:38: Same for the leader and people, so it gives them those kind of guardrails to work by.

00:19:45: I think that's very helpful because it puts everything into concrete black-and white.

00:19:50: Here is what i said here we agreed too.

00:19:54: When things get off rails again an opportunity And there may be things you don't know of that are happening for that person in their life and they're not who They typically are, and that happens for all of us at different times.

00:20:08: So that gives ya a way to safely say Hey I'm not getting what I said.

00:20:13: What would do?

00:20:13: You what you said I would get.

00:20:16: Yeah so open communication as you

00:20:18: oh yeah

00:20:19: mention really being proactively communicating.

00:20:23: Yes now if someone listening would like to start tomorrow, maybe even today.

00:20:36: To accept polarity and live with polarity.

00:20:40: where should they start?

00:20:42: Well, we have a book website called polarityintelligence.com and We have information in there about the book And we also have some resource pages because one of our goals is we don't want people just to Think of this as a theory?

00:20:56: We want them to really apply it in their businesses In their homes with their teams.

00:21:01: so we wrote the book in a way that is very practical.

00:21:04: So that would be the first place I would send them and then trace night Also Have A podcast Called Burnout Proof Leap leadership and we drop two episodes a week.

00:21:14: And every Friday, We have what?

00:21:16: We call it polarity spotlight.

00:21:18: So we take current trend something that's happening currently day in we can shine a spot light on to really point out the Polarity thats underneath of it an just how its shows up our lives everyday.

00:21:32: so we had that as well sounds

00:21:34: interesting because then I can practice also recognize polarity.

00:21:38: Yes, yes.

00:21:39: Stop just look for them right?

00:21:41: Look for them that's the key.

00:21:44: yeah Do you have any daily practice?

00:21:46: I usually suggest micro practices because i know That we all don't have a lot of time.

00:21:52: but is there Any micro practice that would help build tolerance For discomfort in this polarity?

00:22:00: I think self-awareness Is it practice that just really becoming very aware of yourself and pay attention to how you're feeling, because that tension sometimes... You can feel it.

00:22:14: And then become aware of it!

00:22:16: Then ask yourself those questions like why am I feeling this?

00:22:20: Does the person have a different personality?

00:22:22: Is there any problem with polarity or

00:22:24: both?!

00:22:25: Just start asking your self-awareness.

00:22:28: Tracy what would you say?

00:22:30: Yeah,

00:22:30: I think you know.

00:22:31: what we didn't talk about is the difference between a problem and a polarity.

00:22:34: So a problem has an endpoint.

00:22:36: yeah

00:22:37: You're gonna maybe have a few different solutions.

00:22:39: you can apply your going to apply one.

00:22:42: it's Gonna go away.

00:22:42: It's like What do we having for dinner tonight?

00:22:44: He might Have three Different options.

00:22:46: you don't eat all Three you just choose One And you're done right.

00:22:50: But Polaris are ongoing so they never end.

00:22:53: so The other practice would be if there's any what appears To Be A Problem showing up over and over, you just can't solve it.

00:23:03: That's an indicator that is actually a polarity not problem.

00:23:06: so always looking for those things like didn't we address this or I thought we took care of them?

00:23:11: why are they back?

00:23:16: You need to start looking at it through different lens.

00:23:19: Wow!

00:23:20: Now have internal polarity which says i would love continue the conversation with.

00:23:26: The episode will get too long, maybe.

00:23:31: So we have to come to an end here?

00:23:36: Make

00:23:36: the decision, Christine!

00:23:37: That's right.

00:23:39: I

00:23:40: made a decision here To thank you so much because yeah it was really interesting.

00:23:46: Great perspective great viewpoint.

00:23:49: i love that idea of saying well there is this tension.

00:23:52: Let us live with the tension and let not try to avoid.

00:23:57: And I can only say thank you so much for coming and sharing your ideas about polarities.

00:24:04: Thank You For The Opportunity, it's been a lot of fun!

00:24:06: Yeah, thank you Christine.

00:24:09: This was Leadwell.

00:24:10: Now what is the one thing that you're taking away from this

00:24:13: episode?

00:24:14: Please share in the comments below.