Ep 124. Why Good Intentions Don't Create Workplace Equality

00:00:00: I just, i read this to the data that says that gender parity is a hundred and twenty three years away.

00:00:07: And I just thought you know what?

00:00:08: That's such bullshit!

00:00:13: Hi and welcome to Leadwell Today.

00:00:20: my guest is Gita Sito Ropp founder & CEO of W Corp.

00:00:28: So Gita, you work at the intersection of leadership power and systems change.

00:00:32: And after a career in law an entrepreneurship You turned your focus to question.

00:00:38: many organizations still avoid.

00:00:41: Why do capable women stall?

00:00:44: Burnout or leave even though companies that claim to support equality?

00:00:49: I have story about this

00:00:51: as well.

00:00:53: And through WCorp, you help organizations move beyond good intentions to measurable structural change.

00:01:01: So this conversation is about what is broken?

00:01:04: What actually works and what leadership responsibility really means.

00:01:10: Hi welcome Gita.

00:01:11: Thank You so much Christine for having me.

00:01:14: So there is one thing you often say and that it's the system, That Is The Problem And Not Women.

00:01:21: From your perspective where do organizations most fundamentally misdiagnose this issue?

00:01:30: It's such a good question.

00:01:31: I don't think we realize.

00:01:33: Let's start from this premise What means white man?

00:01:38: and then traditional means rich white men.

00:01:41: So it's a system that is created for very specific subset of men.

00:01:47: And what we do, as we try and fit into their normal.

00:01:52: so when you go to the office no office was set up if You had an office?

00:01:55: We look at today's office.

00:01:56: new Look at.

00:01:57: you walk in this building and there are people sitting At The bottom.

00:02:00: they type-in your name or you bite Your badge going to lift me Go upstairs And you do all of those things and sit in a room that's actually too cold for women, because it is too cold.

00:02:12: You go to the cafeteria which has lunch choices where people don't want to eat.

00:02:17: Google is one of them very few who really pays attention to this.

00:02:21: And then they go into toilets with period products... Imagine that!

00:02:26: Then come back in the morning and leave at some point after school finishes for kids and then you can't deal with personal stuff while you're at work but actually that's part of your job.

00:02:39: And if we ran offices that will run four women by woman, We would turn up in two places.

00:02:45: That didn't mind?

00:02:45: If we weren't there ,we'd run on productivity and results not showing-up.

00:02:51: .We have more places where people could sit and speak to each other In communal concepts.

00:02:56: None which make us weak But what do is call it creative or something instead female and feminine.

00:03:04: And we would then have a period products, we would have huge salad bars with a little bit of meat on the little bit efficient all these things.

00:03:12: We will just run everything differently.

00:03:15: women really struggle in male dominated male run male setup environment.

00:03:23: Run on testosterone based approach.

00:03:26: It's very simple linear hormonal system men has And we struggle with that in order to bring our biology to work, which is a system that's delicately calibrated between estrogen progesterone and testosterone.

00:03:40: So it's just like saying what's the difference?

00:03:43: Between cheese...and I don't know maybe tofu because they look the same but not even on the same lexicon of experience.

00:03:55: Wow

00:03:56: Wow, so a lot of companies.

00:03:58: they invest in those gender equality initiatives.

00:04:02: So DEI initiatives but there are not a lot changes.

00:04:07: They have those initiatives and those projects But what really distinguishes the real structural change from well packaged compliance?

00:04:19: So firstly a lot of DEI actually came out in the United States and The United States has some very specific unique problems In their DEI which come from the history of slavery.

00:04:30: which is why when now you have Donald Trump coming in with this anti-DEI, anti-work and whatever yes but it's a peculiarly American conversation.

00:04:39: Now It has obviously impacted all of us because American corporations have not become global behemoths Which impact all our lives Because they're Americans.

00:04:49: I applaud them for doing whatever it is that they have done, which has started these conversations like feminism.

00:04:55: Not so much in terms of voting but a huge...I was watching the movie on Gloria Steinem and i was like wow this woman deserves so much more credit than she gets in this day-in age!

00:05:03: It was an insane documentary And what we are looking for Is to say look We don't want to fight you.

00:05:12: If somebody hates me because I'm brown, i cannot see the value in fighting them.

00:05:15: How does this help you?

00:05:17: It doesn't change a single thing!

00:05:18: I don't want to fight you because I will remain woman and you'll remain understanding me Because You Don't Have To Understand Me Now as long As You Accept Both Of Those Things.

00:05:26: And That's Where I Came From.

00:05:27: This Is Not My Field.

00:05:28: DEI is not my field.

00:05:29: My Field Is Communications Impact Advocacy.

00:05:33: I Cold Called Seventy Six Men That is a lot of men to speak too when I was doing this.

00:05:39: And in the beginning, it's like oh my god.

00:05:42: and after two or calls that i gave up now tell me what you think?

00:05:46: And then would just say to me You know

00:05:47: What?!

00:05:47: I don't care!

00:05:48: I have no problem with all these things.

00:05:50: so I do not care.

00:05:51: One man said to me Gita...I made twenty five million last year.

00:05:54: Nothing has anything impact on women.

00:05:57: if they need a woman I reach down from glass ceiling and pull her off If she doesn't need one.

00:06:01: I'm like wow there are glass ceilings..I am proud.

00:06:06: So what do we do when half the world does not care?

00:06:12: What you then is to say, please feel free to not care.

00:06:16: But when have a male run a man's toilet which has urinals and a woman's toilet that has toilets and occasionally tampons And nobody cares if they are there They exist under the same roof.

00:06:29: Let us just expand this concept.

00:06:31: You work in an environment you work in, and we're working an environment that suits us.

00:06:39: And why don't we all just look at results?

00:06:41: so?

00:06:41: You don't have to care about.

00:06:42: my workplace takes my biology My cultural obligations by looking after my parents or looking after children.

00:06:50: I Don't care That you have a very cold office.

00:06:52: that makes me happy and want to go drink with them the morning After finish work.

00:06:56: Why don't We just have them coexist side-by-side?

00:06:58: then they don' t have to bully each other into any kind of submission.

00:07:02: I feel like that's just intelligence somehow, right?

00:07:05: So

00:07:05: are you mainly working then with male leaders or is it easier for you to access companies where the leaders already female.

00:07:14: Or have been founded by female leaders?

00:07:18: actually such a good question because it's not even true whether they're male of female.

00:07:22: It's actually the size of your organization Because there aren't as many women who don't care about them.

00:07:29: There are less women that don't care about women, but we have a phrase we use in my organization.

00:07:33: Is it a woman or is it the man-woman?

00:07:36: The man- Woman does not care about this conversation at all and In fact she thinks of this conversation weakens and debilitates her makes available So she will not join in this conversation.

00:07:45: And your average thirty five year old man woman actually doesn't even give a shit because She hasn't gone to primary menopause.

00:07:50: if she has enough to deal with it therefore and doesn't understand it.

00:07:54: So you want to be careful that this isn't just a gender-based thing, what we wanna talk about is... What's happening to help us?

00:08:01: the size of our organization?

00:08:04: Women who have walked out huge workplaces set up their own businesses know why they've walked out And there are some men absolutely and I'm grateful for them, the more they marry you.

00:08:18: But in my arena of life.

00:08:19: i am interested in creating a movement so please just come into door to get certified.

00:08:23: We give visibility we put on your map ,we'll talk with you or interview you .

00:08:29: We're good at visibility So do not feel like you shouldn't.

00:08:34: as long if have one person that works even in a freelance capacity we will certify You!

00:08:39: We bring you inside our door.

00:08:44: The more the people that care, the more of a momentum.

00:08:46: Then the more movement and then change.

00:08:49: So what is your vision with W Corp?

00:08:52: My vision for W Corps was to create... It's interesting it only two years old And you don't, I'm laughing at the fact that it's my fifth startup.

00:09:03: So I knew how to get there very fast and i spent one year just creating a minimum viable product and I signed up fifty companies and was like okay we can do this!

00:09:13: And Year Two which is last year was about credibility in collaboration.

00:09:17: so we won a lot of awards.

00:09:18: We collaborated with huge companies Google VC, KPMG, Snapchat.

00:09:25: Anyone I could get my hands on become shameless about asking which was not who i was before.

00:09:30: My vision with this is to take All the conversations that we're having and keep having them With a lens that has utter clarity where it comes to women.

00:09:41: That's what i'm trying To do for example Before i came on this call.

00:09:44: there's A huge impetus On return tour And it's very bad for women to return to work because we want to work and create results but not returned to the office.

00:09:55: So I started looking at it differently, like what if?

00:09:59: From how much money landlords are losing when their offices stay empty?

00:10:04: Did you know eight hundred million being wasted because people are not coming to work.

00:10:09: This is why they want us come back to work and I'm like let's have that conversation, not this one!

00:10:13: So iIm very focused on pulling these conversations out to show how it impacts.

00:10:18: so we have the right To fight back in an intelligent way Because the UK government Is running a collaborative exercise which should be asked for Work from home or go-to-work And take this into account.

00:10:34: overall goal for this year, I have one specific impact goal.

00:10:39: So every year i try and find an impact goal a non-impact go.

00:10:43: Two percent of all venture capital funding goes to women.

00:10:46: All female run teams right?

00:10:48: so if you had One penis on your team The funding goes up to twelve percent.

00:10:55: Without that one penis You stay at two percent of available money.

00:10:59: billions and billions.

00:10:59: only two percent goes To women.

00:11:01: my goal This here is trying get number three percent Very specifically.

00:11:06: I don't want to talk about it anymore, iI don't wanna hear about It any more... I just don't care.

00:11:11: How do we get it?

00:11:12: To three percent?

00:11:15: So We sat down..we looked at the numbers and were building a little barometer in The UK which will track how much money goes to women And how Much Money is being invested generally.

00:11:26: Every time somebody gives money to Women Im gonna send them marching around with cake & balloons Because im like If I can celebrate you here, maybe it'll make you do more here at another juncture.

00:11:39: And so that's my overwhelming goal.

00:11:43: So why is that?

00:11:44: Your question was what Is My Goal?

00:11:45: I don't know!

00:11:46: My goal is to think of one thing To change every year and go hell for leather to Change That One Thing.

00:11:55: Why have You Started

00:11:57: WQR?

00:11:58: Because i Was Twenty Years Ago.

00:12:02: I walked out on my marriage and a very big company, i had built with my husband.

00:12:05: And I ended up with three small children.

00:12:07: the youngest was a year-and-a-half in the eldest for seven years old.

00:12:10: The youngest must have been a bit younger because we were holding nappies... ...and I remember carrying her.

00:12:14: so she was a bit young.

00:12:16: My ex-husband emptied all of my bank accounts.. ..and I ended off at two hundred pounds killed all credit cards.

00:12:21: We had built this together right?

00:12:22: It wasn't like that.

00:12:23: married mine!

00:12:24: And then went to my mother.

00:12:25: Because I come from a wealthy family You need to go back because marriages are meant to be worked out between a husband and wife.

00:12:32: If you can sleep in my house, which is where I bought for one night then the children have to

00:12:37: leave.".

00:12:39: And it was the next day that I had been homeless so we couldn't pay for anything.

00:12:43: We had one suitcase with four of us.

00:12:45: I worked my way out of that without having to get married or sell myself for any of those things.

00:12:52: That's all in the brain, but it was insanely difficult.

00:12:56: Christine?

00:12:57: So by red... In twenty-twenty where are we now?

00:13:01: six five four three a court transcript of man called Crispin Odie that The Financial Times had run huge exposé on this man and he has been sexually assaulting women apparently Eighteen years or something and he had oh my god the overwhelming amount of evidence.

00:13:18: I think something like seven Women have brought him to court, and every time that judge was like they don't like it.

00:13:25: see you later.

00:13:26: Like this conversation He's now in fact suing The Financial Times because he saying none Of This Was True Because It Was I Think Condicted Of Rape.

00:13:34: And The Woman Said In The Court Transcript One Of Us Was Delegated Every Day So that when he went into the lift to come down, we rang the ground floor and said He's on his way.

00:13:45: Get behind him locked door.

00:13:47: Wow.

00:13:49: And I was like as a woman you know so many things from that one sentence.

00:13:54: One You know they have no choice otherwise They would've left.

00:13:57: Two need money.

00:13:59: Three nobody saved them had to save themselves.

00:14:02: Four i thought my god This could be me There but for the grace of God go As like.

00:14:07: No I'm gonna do, someone should do something.

00:14:09: Well i didn't want to do it...I was like someone should Do Something!

00:14:12: I Was In My Superficial Era.. I'm Like Can I Go And Sit in Monaco With A Toy Boy and Stroke my Chanel Handbag & Do Nothing?

00:14:19: I've Hurt Very Hard My All Adult Life As a Single Parent.

00:14:23: I Was Like Not Me But Somebody Should Do Something.

00:14:25: And then about two months later, my elder daughter took me to dinner which she let me pay for.

00:14:31: That was nice of her and she said mama I got fired and i didn't want to tell you but i got fired because i had my period...and she was so ashamed herself!

00:14:39: Then i was like oh and she goes mama do something?

00:14:43: You promise to do something about this.

00:14:45: it's such a good idea-do

00:14:46: something!!

00:14:51: So then..I started to do Something and here we are and I said okay But To Save Me I said I'll Do It For Five Years.

00:14:57: I'll see what i can do for five years because in running my health and wellness business fifteen years, I had a lot of impact.

00:15:03: That changed health and wellness in this country completely.

00:15:07: so I've had impact!

00:15:08: It was the first non-white woman to stand for parliament...I've had an impact.

00:15:12: So it's like I deserve a rest..it turns out not yet.

00:15:14: The universe is like hold my beer....It's time for the next thing.

00:15:19: I'm just here and every day I pick something fun to talk about.

00:15:23: ...to change.

00:15:24: ..to shift develop skills on the way that are really helpful.

00:15:31: They've developed this ability of bluntness, or clarity

00:15:38: and you're not afraid?

00:15:40: Not even slightly.

00:15:41: all those terrible things came along when they made.

00:15:44: it's not I don't worry!

00:15:46: And there is always fear...I think its healthy to have fear but not enough.

00:15:51: ever stop me.

00:15:52: Wow So what your message for the world out here

00:15:56: that I've been on in the media and The Public Eye since about twenty-four or twenty five years old, which is very long time ago.

00:16:04: And...I have never once in all of those times blamed men for where we are like.

00:16:11: even when i tell you normal as a white man?

00:16:13: I'm not telling your normals it's horrible White Man!

00:16:15: Just saying its a whiteman.

00:16:16: It'a statement effect.

00:16:17: So far so good.

00:16:19: I don't think we can blame Men For this because When You're In An Environment and it works for you, how can you possibly be blamed for enjoying and taking advantage of it?

00:16:28: You cannot.

00:16:30: Be my guest!

00:16:30: You should completely do that.

00:16:32: however if you have daughters your daughters are going to go through what we went through...you don't want them to go though what we ran through.

00:16:42: or If you have a sense of understanding for the young dog That is who we are.

00:16:46: We're fifty percent of the population with maybe three percent of The Voice in the world.

00:16:54: Jeffrey Epstein's files prove this beyond all reasonable doubt.

00:16:58: And if you don't want to create an environment in which this happens to your children, You have the right and the ability on The voice to change it.

00:17:07: Don't burn the house down.

00:17:09: that's not important.

00:17:10: What is important?

00:17:11: Is more and more people standing up and saying okay I care about this.

00:17:15: come to us.

00:17:16: we'll get you certified will put you on a map and show you as being someone who cares about this, make the changes without us.

00:17:22: I'm easy with

00:17:23: that.".

00:17:23: That's the male version.

00:17:25: The female version is we need to stop blaming men.

00:17:30: And my day job how i fund all of senior women to build.

00:17:38: I have women that have companies over a hundred and fifty million, i coached a lot of really high-growth woman...and a lot higher growth men!

00:17:46: Like..I've just done an exit for a woman at one point eight billion which is the third largest exit.

00:17:52: I'm always saying to these women if you believe in the power that you have inside yourself That Power will help you step forward And To Have A Clarity & A Voice That Will Change Much More than you would ever believe by being able to stand up and say something.

00:18:08: You just stand up, but before you can say it in yourself because I'm a very powerful woman i really like that about me or your are very powerful the more you liked that about you And then change how you show off.

00:18:25: The change starts within us and the more of us there is life will never be the same.

00:18:30: I

00:18:32: don't know about you.

00:18:32: For me, it was really interesting because i come from a family where my mother is very strong woman and her mother as well.

00:18:41: so for me... It's strange when we walked into the world that women were not equal to each other!

00:18:53: To be honest

00:18:55: this is so natural!

00:18:55: No, and it's true right?

00:18:56: It's confusing because like my son grew up in an environment where women were all powerful.

00:19:01: so My son does not believe.

00:19:03: obviously now he doesn't.

00:19:04: He didn't understand that woman got paid less.

00:19:06: do the same job.

00:19:07: You thought I was just making it out to be dramatic.

00:19:09: showed him statistics And he was just like what you need.

00:19:12: He couldn't, but it's such an easy generational shift.

00:19:16: I was driving my elder daughter and my second youngest child to school when she was five years old four-years-old.

00:19:22: i think it was nursery schools maybe a bit younger And we were already living alone.

00:19:27: There was man pulled up on the bike next to us dressed in a suit and everything.

00:19:33: She said to me mama where is that daddy going?

00:19:36: Why does he dress like that on a

00:19:37: bike?".

00:19:43: Daddies also work.

00:19:49: That's great!

00:19:50: My daughter was like, what do you mean?

00:19:52: men work?

00:19:54: I don't know that...I thought only mummies worked.

00:19:57: so it is such an easy thing and i think that

00:20:01: Is a great point because It does start within the family doesn't not only start in The company.

00:20:08: No..the companies are external consequence of What happened in your life.

00:20:13: boys up to respect women, to believe in their value.

00:20:16: To talk about what they need and also but the thing is Christine it takes so much courage to stand out of the herd.

00:20:23: a person that stands up to say I don't believe in this.

00:20:26: This Is Not Right.

00:20:28: Why Does This Person Unless Than Me?

00:20:30: why be?

00:20:31: That Person Takes A Lot Of Bravery And Courage.

00:20:34: So In A Way It Takes Much More Courage.

00:20:37: For Men At The Moment To Go Against The Prevailing Wind And for women, we give birth.

00:20:42: We need courage at every step.

00:20:44: but it takes a lot of courage from men to fight the system.

00:20:47: Yeah yeah and also they fight the systems.

00:20:50: that is as you said made for them.

00:20:51: so It's such

00:20:54: a mind spool right?

00:20:55: Like its even works because your looking like going here.

00:20:57: lets fight this thing.

00:20:58: that gets you benefit.

00:20:59: You're really okay.

00:21:03: So it's up

00:21:04: on us.

00:21:06: But I read this to the data that says, gender parity is a hundred and twenty three years ago.

00:21:15: And you know what?

00:21:16: That's such bullshit!

00:21:23: Me necessarily.

00:21:24: I think that there should be more special things about the clarity We have with what we want to change.

00:21:30: and if we changed two or three of four metrics only, i'll take one metric.

00:21:34: you Take one metric.

00:21:35: You take One metric?

00:21:37: It's life-changing.

00:21:38: it's because we don't drill in To changing a metric...I don't know.

00:21:42: let me know.

00:21:43: at The end of year by the way If this is successful now but I Think changing one metric Like, I'm going to take ownership of this metric.

00:21:51: Somebody else says okay i want to change this metric.

00:21:54: think every metric that we're willing To literally stand for and say This is my flag in the ground?

00:21:58: I will not move!

00:21:59: I wonder what that would do because We've tried everything else.

00:22:02: depth does nothing yeah Yeah

00:22:05: wow

00:22:05: cool

00:22:06: definitely keep me up-to-date at The end of the year.

00:22:10: let Me know how it goes.

00:22:11: a really great conversation.

00:22:13: thank you For standing your women and yeah, being very vocal about the inequality that is still out there.

00:22:29: Thank you!

00:22:30: I wasn't doing anything else anyway because i didn't get to go hide in a corner...I was like I might as well use my time wisely.

00:22:35: Cool thank

00:22:37: you so much.

00:22:38: thanks for being here.

00:22:40: this was Leadwell.

00:22:41: now what is the one thing?

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