Ep 122. When a Relationship No Longer Fits Who You’ve Become

00:00:00: they're feeling so lost and desperate that I don't know what to do.

00:00:04: They've lost themselves, and...I don't think many of them are just making a split decision to leave like that.

00:00:12: I think most it is long erosion of trust and all the other things go into having happy healthy relationship.

00:00:27: Hi!

00:00:27: And welcome to Lead.

00:00:28: Well today My guest is Michel Heffern.

00:00:39: Michel, you are a certified life relationship and divorce coach?

00:00:44: And do support women at some of life's most defining crossroads!

00:00:51: Your break

00:00:52: often begins even before the divorce is on the table.

00:00:56: At that moment woman starts questioning whether she still reflects who she is becoming Drawing on her own experience, your experience Michelle.

00:01:07: Of divorce and reinvention as well as decades of leadership in nonprofit and corporate settings.

00:01:13: you help women navigate relationship transitions with clarity self-worth And honesty so Women can move forward aligned With who they truly are?

00:01:25: What do They want next?

00:01:27: exactly?

00:01:28: Wow!

00:01:30: I know You're Maybe fortunately, maybe unfortunately experienced in that area.

00:01:37: So how Could you say?

00:01:42: That now was the time to change?

00:01:47: Oh

00:01:47: at the time it's such a rich question because it's filled with a lot of things that led up to it.

00:01:56: but I realized In my second marriage things weren't going well and it didn't feel like a very healthy situation.

00:02:14: I didn't understand back then what that all meant, but i knew something was just misaligned in what is happening with me.

00:02:23: so...I found the courage to move beyond that..and I did not realize at this time that relationship had become quite abusive Not in that physical sense so much, but then emotional and the financial pieces of it.

00:02:38: There was a lot of control.

00:02:39: well everything Was controlled?

00:02:42: And when I finally found The courage to leave i had they come by shell Of who i once was and i was at the bottom.

00:02:53: i really Lost So Much and i started over completely.

00:02:57: Had A daughter In college At the time And I had a son who was just going into middle school.

00:03:03: My children are ten years apart, and... ...I had no idea what I was going to do.

00:03:12: so i started on this path of first survival, because I really needed to survive.

00:03:19: But i didn't make out well financially and so I really need to figure out what was going do next.

00:03:25: And it through that time...I ended up hiring a coach Because I did not know how to do anything on my own Did!

00:03:32: I came from very big career but had been in the workforce for many years.

00:03:38: So having reinvented..I don' t know what this meant or wanted me.

00:03:44: So it was like a bit by bit, but through it I was taken into situations in life that had to learn a lot.

00:03:53: And one of them is when i started working with victims and survivors of domestic violence then later in relationship health education.

00:04:03: all these came from this series non-profit opportunities that I had become an executive with, and learned how to raise large sums of money in all these things.

00:04:16: But i knew i still wasn't aligned with what i wanted to do.

00:04:20: it was through that first coach i started understanding a-what coaching was all about And for whatever reason It struck me is that this is the thing i meant to do.

00:04:33: It took me a while, but I went on the path and started this whole journey of self-discovery and self expansion.

00:04:39: And creating what i wanted in my life But also had to learn about What I needed To let go Of In My Past Life.

00:04:49: That Is No longer Serving Me In A Good Way Or A Positive Way.

00:04:55: it was transition over time.

00:04:58: now looking back at I see how it all threads together, but... ...I couldn't have told you that i was consciously moving in this direction.

00:05:08: I wish could say so profound back then and knew about them.

00:05:11: But now as we move into the phase of life where im truly doing what i meant to do for now To serve And help other people grow and expand It didn t intend be a divorce coach But so many people were coming to me for that, and I decided to get specialized in the area just so i could help them on a more deeper level.

00:05:38: It's always transformation from where I work because unless you are transforming through any situation or transition into life whether it is after long career not being a mother, your children leave home or whatever is.

00:05:59: There's always this identity shift that's happening and there's a grieving period in those things we leave behind but it's hard for some of us to let go of it even the divorce situation.

00:06:13: moving through them you can gracefully step into new life.

00:06:24: age are those women that are thinking about divorce.

00:06:31: And I'll tell you why i'm asking the question first.

00:06:34: this question came up when you said, This was your second marriage and then...I

00:06:39: remember

00:06:39: my mom was a foodie When I was born in twenty when like..my brother was born!

00:06:44: I had pretty old parents at that time when I was young which was really unusual And I remember her when she was in her sixties, i think she was sixty or sixty two whatever.

00:06:58: She talked to me and said Christine... ...I never understood how people would consider getting divorced when they are sixty because why wouldn't you?

00:07:10: You already hanged into it for so long with that guy but now I understand!

00:07:16: She never, they never got divorced.

00:07:18: My parents now got divorced.

00:07:19: I have no idea what would have happened if they did but to me that sentence really sticks.

00:07:29: Oh i think it makes so much sense.

00:07:31: a phrase is great divorce.

00:07:33: Is that divorce over fifty and fifty five?

00:07:37: It's the fastest growing segment of divorce in that space.

00:07:43: There's so many reasons behind this and a lot of studies that have been happening for this but, not all my clients are in their sixties.

00:07:55: Having been through thirty-thirty five year marriages or multiyear marriages I often do sometimes some workshop called divorce after decades because It is a different place in life and so many women are understanding or feeling like they've become invisible.

00:08:14: In their marriages over the years, They raised there kids have done all of things Many times.

00:08:19: I also had big careers And then it's general sense wanting to grow an expanded life.

00:08:30: The husbands often ones that step back into smaller world see this.

00:08:38: I don't know that there's nothing scientific behind this Christine but i feel like a lot of men's worlds get smaller in my area.

00:08:47: A lot people golf and go to the desert after they retire.

00:08:54: That's not everybody's idea of retirement.

00:08:56: And I see more women being more adventurous and wanting to travel the world, and seeing what else is out there?

00:09:03: Discover new things in people like you!

00:09:05: How do you connect with people like YOU when we are so far away?

00:09:10: but it can

00:09:11: happen?!

00:09:12: So that where a lot of that disconnect i'm seen in marriages often times... Things have just come into point for completion loving, happy healthy relationship and having fun in those golden years if you will.

00:09:29: They're just more like roommates and they are rambling around And there's no point to the relationship sadly.

00:09:39: Yeah sometimes I wonder whether we leave our partners too quickly or Whether it is a good thing that we leave as quickly now?

00:09:50: We don't have to hang-in.

00:09:53: I think they're both sides.

00:09:57: Oh, a hundred percent agree with you.

00:10:00: I believe in long-term happy healthy relationships wholeheartedly.

00:10:06: In fact i'm very much an advocate of great marriages and awesome relationships.

00:10:14: Most the time when people leave it's not quick.

00:10:17: decision usually takes on average about seven years to ten years, people have some sort of seed planted and they keep thinking something's not right.

00:10:27: And it takes until they've just had too much.

00:10:32: I have to say that when a woman comes to me...and again there are no all in this situation.

00:10:38: but When A Woman Comes To Me Often she is really been contemplating for very long time.

00:10:47: She usually reached the point where She's in her car.

00:10:53: I have more phone calls with women while they're sitting and their cars crying, And these are women who've been accomplished In many ways.

00:11:04: all sorts of doctors lawyers stay at home moms every everything you can imagine.

00:11:12: But when they call there feeling so lost and desperate that a don't know what to do They've lost themselves.

00:11:20: I don't think many of them are just making a split decision to leave like that.

00:11:35: a common friend, Lori Pappas.

00:11:47: And I just got off with her earlier and one of the things that I admire about her or husband now is they have this gorgeous relationship even in their older years.

00:11:59: so it should be... In my mind if you're going to bother doing it gets different.

00:12:05: yes partners Ayle like that we are there for them but assuming partners are healthy able to do things.

00:12:15: It's nice to be able have a real connection with the person that you're with, right?

00:12:22: The one question I ask myself and when i think about divorcing...I would go through separation.

00:12:36: my shell or armor will even

00:12:40: more

00:12:40: after that open myself up again because I think the expectation would be that probably worse things come afterwards, not better.

00:12:56: There's a lot we sit on and speculate about... And one of the biggest parts is when women are actually making that transition or leaving.

00:13:12: Men do it too, but the majority are women who are leaving at this age.

00:13:20: It's trusting that you don't really know all of these answers yet and I liken to every step in a way as a step because we get too far ahead from what ifs And when we go too far into the what-ifs its a way to talk ourselves out of our possibilities.

00:13:44: it's very scary.

00:13:46: It's a very scary thing to do because, but I think your point is that if things are where you want them or into some degree and seems like the right for now then maybe thats the right thing.

00:14:02: But when we don't do something because talk ourselves out of this I'm already putting limitations on myself, and sometimes i think it's a good idea to get a lot of courage.

00:14:21: It's a transformation through the process—it's not walking through the door and being the same person as you were but also if you're standing in front of the door You're making the monster bigger than it really might be.

00:14:47: I just used this analogy The other day with a client we have here, and I don't know if you guys haven't when This comic gets called the far side And in this one right?

00:14:58: It has...I use to does an image for a story I wrote a couple years ago But there was these astrologers.

00:15:07: They are all gathered around looking through a telescope and they're looking at some planet, there's a big giant hairy eight-eyed spider that are like oh my gosh!

00:15:20: And it is super scary looking through the lens.

00:15:25: But what turns out to be... There was this tiny little spider on the lens of the telescope so we were anticipating this monster actually yeah.. It's a little scary.

00:15:39: I don't like spiders but The story about it is usually much worse than the actual thing that's happening to us.

00:15:47: So what are some of those stories, did you have a concert?

00:15:53: Oh gosh!

00:15:54: That's such a wonderful question because I think there're so many... Some of the ones just come at the top of my mind like how am i gonna do this on my own?

00:16:04: I'm too old to do this..I don't know how to manage money.... It'll hurt everybody, it will disrupt the entire family system.

00:16:14: Everybody will talk about me.

00:16:17: people will think I'm crazy again and i'm too old to have anybody who really loves me in my life...I'm not deserving of a better relationship!

00:16:27: I'm NOT deserving more than what I already have.... I've been taught that this was the way its done And so that must be.

00:16:38: So all of these things are just these coding around us to say, oh there's no possible way and one of the biggest ones is really I'm not worthy of a better life?

00:17:06: and most of that starts with one.

00:17:08: we have ourselves.

00:17:10: And I think also every single one of us, everyone deserves to have happiness in their life!

00:17:21: When we operate on the shoulds—and this is how it is —the stories or limitations... It's harder to find that happiness & joy than If we truly let ourselves be who we are and followed our true life, I talk about a lot.

00:17:44: is it's getting out of your head.

00:17:46: You have to drop down into your heart.

00:17:48: really ask yourself what do you want in my life?

00:17:51: And What Do I Need?

00:17:54: Early on when i'm coaching people wanting to improve their relationships, it's starting to learn how to communicate in a way that expresses needs and desires.

00:18:05: In a way That is non-threatening And in a Way that allows partners if they're willing To build some reciprocity in that relationship with one another and Build love and respect and kindness that Is more equitable Where everyone has a part as somebody over the other One?

00:18:29: A woman then makes that decision and says, okay it's time for me to walk away.

00:18:35: What is the very first thing they should do at this stage?

00:18:42: Yeah I firmly believe in a collaborative approach too.

00:18:46: when you're going through something like this.

00:18:48: And why i think of this...I'll start with that.

00:18:51: When I went thru my last divorce It was done a certain way and that was the only way it was done.

00:19:00: So I ran out, got an attorney turns out.

00:19:04: i got the wrong attorney nice guy but not the right person and didn't have The things I needed.

00:19:12: he didn't know back then That attorneys are like doctors.

00:19:17: they're Not all the same.

00:19:18: They don't do...they Don't Have the Same style or All that.

00:19:21: I used my attorney as a therapist.

00:19:24: I went and complained about all this stuff is very expensive way to get therapy, And they're not equipped for that.

00:19:32: so i really believe the end.

00:19:35: They don't Really know most of them unless their trained in This area anything About how To really understand what a financial The financial implications right.

00:19:47: look at spreadsheets and think oh That looks fair you should take that offer.

00:19:52: That's actually so wrong, because I think so many women give up so much and what my suggestion now is...I do this coaching for a reason.

00:20:04: it's mostly because most people need the emotional support and also practical guidance through it.

00:20:11: So i like to start with a lot of that but also making sure she has the right people on her team or they have the right People On Their Team.

00:20:20: So, They're actually getting A very nice way to go through it and I Also think It doesn't need To be contentious now here in The United States some divorce is so contentious its so ugly And there's so many things That don't Need to happen.

00:20:37: if you've got the Right kind Of guidance and move Through this with a Lot more grace It would be so much easier.

00:20:44: I also work with a very specific framework, a lot of the times where i help people understand what it's called Vivid and is in the v for just putting some values to what you... What's going to be meaningful for you?

00:21:00: Because I think you have to start with your values and ground into what you really want on your divorce!

00:21:08: How do we create intention around this?

00:21:10: What's the intention?

00:21:11: you want to have everybody in a fine In a better place through the end of this.

00:21:17: so they're stepping into their new lives with confidence and dignity And grace.

00:21:22: or you wanna come through it knowing that you've battled to the very End, and somebody is gonna die through the battle.

00:21:29: some people It's winning at all costs.

00:21:31: I just don't believe in that approach the greater good, or anybody very well.

00:21:38: And then we go on to a vision and creating some kind of a vision.

00:21:42: so you have an North Star that your trying to work toward?

00:21:47: Of course all these things can be really tweaked along the way but unless we set it up as foundation You could build into and grieve in old identity because leaving behind is not going Whatever it is anymore, and you're stepping into something new.

00:22:07: It's indifferent And so I like to help people transform through that process.

00:22:12: So they're actually finding their footing and their voice Through the process?

00:22:19: So it said identity piece is important.

00:22:21: and then a D has three components do its discernment really making decisions based on discernment getting your decisions clear and then taking the direction that you're meant to move in.

00:22:35: And when can pull it together, more of a framework like this?

00:22:40: It gives at least some kind of road map.

00:22:43: start on also just every day.

00:22:48: take another big step backward not trying That big list of everything that needs to be considered.

00:22:57: There's so much to consider, but most if it doesn't need to be done day one You always have to work on what's the next best step?

00:23:10: Now rather personal question

00:23:13: What

00:23:14: has surprised you most about who you became now on the other side?

00:23:21: Oh Wow I think One of the things that has surprised me most, and this is funny.

00:23:34: When I was going to college or university here they gave us an assessment And on that.

00:23:42: so i wish what?

00:23:43: Eighteen years old...and They gave Us An Assessment and it said when I took mine That It Tells You Where you Would thrive or do really well in whatever you studied and move on to, in the course of a career.

00:24:00: And mine came up with things like psychologist therapist counselor philanthropist some of these things where it didn't sound very appealing to me.

00:24:15: so I said oh no I'm going to be a news broadcaster.

00:24:23: I was gonna do all these...I wanted to be big and so funny because every time i got promoted into a new thing or this, that of the other things- I did well enough but didn't love it!

00:24:39: It's been a lot!

00:24:40: And then The AHA came when This whole Cochi Thing Came To Me.

00:24:47: It Was Handed To me On My Lap.

00:24:50: I was able to go through a certification program and everything, And i thought how funny it is that now...I'm doing what they said.

00:25:02: So the funny thing Is like the universe going okay!

00:25:06: I see you're gonna do It your way?

00:25:08: I told You at The beginning you would have been good At this but apparently you needed To Do it Your Way.

00:25:14: Go ahead.

00:25:15: And so that to me, I have to laugh when i look back at because all the other things.

00:25:20: I've done Have really helped me become who I am and what?

00:25:25: Am today or What I'm doing?

00:25:26: but Even though it said I could had done that back then I think That I Had To Come Through A Lot Of hardships a lot of learnings, becoming a mom doing all the other things.

00:25:41: Before I understood what was the gift?

00:25:43: I had to give them world and i think that it's a surprise to me.

00:25:48: Wow!

00:25:49: And What is great thing now you are giving your gifts in this world.

00:25:54: so thanks for that.

00:25:55: Oh..I love it.

00:25:56: I Love It though.

00:25:57: Yeah

00:25:58: Wonderful Michelle Thank You So Much For All Your Insights Your Wisdom Your wonderful words and your encouragement.

00:26:09: for anyone out there who feels that they're not in the right place at the moment, because I think you also work with people.

00:26:17: Not only we are going through divorce but other transitions.

00:26:22: Yes very much And it is part of my calling Because i do know I'm not the only one out there who wanted help or needed help and i think it was, It's just one of those things that...I love to do.

00:26:41: And I know what makes a difference in people's lives.

00:26:45: And you finally do it now!

00:26:47: Exactly!

00:26:48: As we're resisting!

00:26:51: Oh my God.

00:26:53: Thank You so much Michelle!

00:26:54: Oh thank you!

00:26:58: This must lead well.

00:26:59: Now, what is the one thing that you're taking away from this episode?

00:27:03: Please share in the comments below and do share with your friends or family.

00:27:08: But only if you like it!