Ep 118. How Great Leaders Build Trust Without Micromanaging

00:00:00: he said, how do I build trust?

00:00:02: I said, how have you done in the past?

00:00:03: He says, normally I go in and tell 'em this is how you build trust with me.

00:00:06: And I said, don't do that.

00:00:07: I want you to walk in that room and look at the people and tell them it's

00:00:11: safe right out front, I trust you.

00:00:14: Here's how you can lose my trust...

00:00:17: Hi, and welcome to Lead Well.

00:00:24: Today I'm joined by Steven Howard.

00:00:27: Steven, you are the creator of Humony Leadership.

00:00:31: I hope I pronounced that correctly.

00:00:34: Very close.

00:00:35: I call it Humony, like human with a Y,

00:00:37: I'll explain later why.

00:00:39: Okay, cool.

00:00:40: And you are an author of more than 20 books on leadership and organizational

00:00:45: culture, which is fantastic.

00:00:46: So we can also look into that.

00:00:48: And your work focuses on a simple but very demanding idea.

00:00:55: That leadership is not about managing tasks, but about leading human beings.

00:01:01: And, yeah, taking everything into account that is related to the human

00:01:05: side of, of working with others.

00:01:07: So you're drawing on decades of international experience.

00:01:11: You've been traveling a lot, and you challenge leaders to build

00:01:14: cultures grounded in humanity, harmony and accountability.

00:01:20: So let's talk about what people-centric leadership really means for you,

00:01:25: where it gets difficult and why it matters now more than ever.

00:01:30: Hi again Steven.

00:01:32: Thank you, Christine.

00:01:33: Yeah.

00:01:33: And it is a straightforward philosophy.

00:01:35: It's very simple.

00:01:37: I tell people you, you manage tasks, you manage processes, procedures, you

00:01:42: manage policies but you lead people.

00:01:46: And you don't manage people.

00:01:47: And occasion you have to manage people,

00:01:49: there's no doubt.

00:01:51: But if you're managing people 85% of the time and leading 15% of

00:01:55: the time, you're doing it wrong.

00:01:56: And so you need to do it the opposite and have that manager

00:01:59: hat on as little as possible.

00:02:03: So where do you see people confusing the two most often?

00:02:08: The thing is, so many managers have this tendency to believe

00:02:11: that they always have to be right,

00:02:12: they always have to have all the answers, and they know best.

00:02:16: And in today's world, that used to be true maybe in the sixties and

00:02:19: seventies, but in today's world, we're hiring people for the brain.

00:02:22: So if you're gonna hire somebody for the brains and then tell 'em

00:02:25: how to use that brain, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

00:02:28: And you hired people for their hands and then you told 'em how to do something, how

00:02:32: to manufacture this, how to follow this process, how to follow this procedure.

00:02:36: But today, for sustained success, and I say sustained and not sustainable, i'm

00:02:41: not talking environmental here, but for sustained success, you need to repeat

00:02:46: and replicate the things you're doing well, but you also need innovation,

00:02:50: you need creativity.

00:02:51: And that comes from letting people be involved in the process.

00:02:55: And.

00:02:57: I think it also requires people to be motivated on their own.

00:03:00: So what can I do as a manager to make sure that my people are as

00:03:05: motivated as I need them to be?

00:03:07: I love that question, Christine and the number one thing is to give them

00:03:11: what I call reinforcing feedback.

00:03:14: So first of all, take the words negative and positive outta your vocabulary

00:03:17: when it comes to feedback there.

00:03:19: If your intention of feedback is to help someone improve, change their,

00:03:24: improve their attitude, improve their behavior, and improve the results,

00:03:27: there's nothing negative about that.

00:03:29: So take that whole concept out first.

00:03:32: Reinforcing feedback is so important because people need to know when

00:03:36: they're doing things right and when they're doing things well.

00:03:38: And so many managers that I talk to push back on that and say, Hey,

00:03:43: we pay these people good money.

00:03:44: Why do I have to tell 'em they're doing a good job?

00:03:46: The answer is, because that's what motivates them.

00:03:49: And if you go through a year without your boss telling you specifically where you've

00:03:55: done a good job, not just, Hey, good job, or, Hey, thanks for that effort, but

00:03:59: which it can't be repeated or replicated.

00:04:01: But if I tell you specifically what you're doing well and the value that

00:04:06: you're contributing, whether it's to this project, to this team, to

00:04:09: an internal customer, to an external customer, people are motivated.

00:04:15: And they will now perform better.

00:04:17: And you don't have to worry about, micromanage them so much.

00:04:20: So positive reinforcing feedback is such critical aspect of motivation

00:04:26: that is lacking in today's world.

00:04:28: And I'm smiling a bit here because I also work with people and their animals and

00:04:32: it's the exact same thing for animals.

00:04:34: Because there are so many people who tell their dog no, don't

00:04:37: do that, and don't do this.

00:04:38: And they're not reinforcing what they actually wanna see.

00:04:41: So it's very similar, really.

00:04:44: I read some research this organization researched over 200,000 people and

00:04:51: 67% of them who'd left their jobs stated that they had gotten no

00:04:56: feedback in the previous 12 months.

00:04:58: None whatsoever.

00:04:59: And we're human beings and that's where Humony comes in.

00:05:02: We're leading human beings, we're not leading assets,

00:05:06: we're not leading resources.

00:05:07: We're not leading digits.

00:05:08: We're not leading engineers.

00:05:10: We're not leading clerical people.

00:05:12: We're not leading scientists.

00:05:13: We are leading human beings first, and therefore, we have to understand

00:05:17: what motivates a human being.

00:05:19: Now I'm interested in one point because I'm working a lot with

00:05:21: leaders as a coach, and quite a few of them, especially the younger ones,

00:05:26: the younger generations, they are extremely afraid of micromanaging.

00:05:31: And so they're not giving feedback, they're not catching up with their

00:05:37: people because they're afraid that this could be seen as micromanaging.

00:05:41: What do you respond to that?

00:05:43: Then they've gone too far the other way.

00:05:47: So they've gone to abandonment.

00:05:49: And we don't wanna micromanage our people.

00:05:51: We don't want to abandon them either.

00:05:53: And if they're in that full, we need to pull 'em towards the middle.

00:05:56: People do want to be led.

00:05:58: They don't necessarily wanna be managed.

00:06:00: We wanna be led and, but you lead people by teaching them by mentoring.

00:06:05: And a key aspect of being a leader, even if you're a young leader, is you need

00:06:09: to mentor the people below you, or even your colleagues, you men mentor them.

00:06:13: And so that's where they're doing it wrong.

00:06:15: They've gone too far to the opposite side.

00:06:17: So what is your definition or an understanding of mentoring?

00:06:20: Because I've heard different people talk about that term differently.

00:06:24: Yeah.

00:06:25: And in English language we interchange the word coaching and

00:06:28: mentoring too often, quite frankly.

00:06:30: Yeah.

00:06:30: If you wanna be form... you wanna formalize this.

00:06:32: Coaching to me is helping individuals improve their capability, their capacity,

00:06:39: and most importantly, their confidence for their current work assignment

00:06:43: and maybe a stretch assignment.

00:06:45: Mentoring is more longer term, if it's more formal.

00:06:49: Talk more about their career path, maybe getting new skills being able to move

00:06:54: into different parts of the organization.

00:06:57: So they get cross-functional training.

00:06:59: That to me is more mentoring on a formal basis.

00:07:02: But in English even I interchange the words when I'm talking, I'm coaching

00:07:06: a person or I'm mentoring this person.

00:07:08: It's more of a one-on-one situation.

00:07:10: And I think you also coined the term micro mentoring.

00:07:13: Is that correct?

00:07:15: I did.

00:07:16: And that's just the thing of not worrying about mentoring on a formal basis.

00:07:20: And on a formal basis, sometimes in an or big organization, you actually

00:07:23: have a formal mentor, somebody you don't report to, maybe somebody in

00:07:26: a different part of the organization and they become your mentor.

00:07:29: But again, more on career path.

00:07:30: Micro mentoring is more about just the day-to-day type activity so that, coaching

00:07:35: and micro mentoring go hand in hand.

00:07:38: I think the micro mentoring I'm talking about sometimes is when

00:07:42: the person comes to you for advice.

00:07:45: Whereas coaching is you as a leader need to be proactive in your coaching.

00:07:49: Don't wait for people to come to you.

00:07:51: Mentoring sometimes you wait for the person to come to you because they see an

00:07:55: opportunity, for instance, and they want, they're not sure if it's right for them

00:07:59: and they want that personal, confidential type help, advice that they're seeking.

00:08:04: Wow.

00:08:05: So this Humony leadership sounds really appealing and,

00:08:10: but to me, still a bit vague.

00:08:13: So what would someone need to do when they go back to the office tomorrow?

00:08:18: What, where would they need to focus?

00:08:20: What would they need to probably validate of what they're doing currently?

00:08:28: Yeah.

00:08:28: The, to become a people leader means you put your people first.

00:08:32: It doesn't, this is not people instead of profits or people over profits.

00:08:36: This is just putting your people first.

00:08:37: So it's understanding.

00:08:38: First of all, it's a mindset change.

00:08:41: And so it's a, it is more of a mindset change than a skill change, quite frankly.

00:08:45: So you have to start thinking, okay, I have people.

00:08:48: Everyone on my team is different.

00:08:50: I'm going to have to lead them differently slightly.

00:08:53: They each have some individual aspects I need to focus on.

00:08:57: Adaptability is critical in today's workplace.

00:08:59: I need to be more flexible.

00:09:01: I remember when I, my first job Christine outta university was in Texas.

00:09:06: Now I grew up in Las Vegas.

00:09:08: Young guy in Las Vegas, a crazy town and I had a crazy attitude.

00:09:12: And I go to Texas and my boss was what we call good old boy, big Texan,

00:09:16: been in the company like 20 years.

00:09:18: And I've been there three months or so, and I went to him, I said, Hey,

00:09:20: boss on Thursday I'm gonna be outta the office from about 11 to 12:30.

00:09:25: I've got a dental appointment, then I'll take my lunch on my way back.

00:09:29: And my boss just stopped and stared at me and leaned over me

00:09:32: and he said, What's wrong, Steven?

00:09:34: Your dentist doesn't work on Saturdays.

00:09:37: It was like you couldn't take time off to go see the dentist on company time.

00:09:43: But today's world, everyone knows no, we have to be flexible.

00:09:46: If an employee needs to see the dentists or hey, even if they need to go see

00:09:49: their children's piano recital at school.

00:09:52: It happens at one o'clock the afternoon.

00:09:53: Let 'em go.

00:09:54: They'll get their work done.

00:09:55: So trust plays a big part of this.

00:09:57: Part of the mindset is you have to trust that people will get their

00:10:00: work done, that don't have to do it in this place between these hours of

00:10:05: the day on these days of the week.

00:10:07: That's a mindset change.

00:10:09: Now.

00:10:09: I fully agree with you, so I couldn't agree more.

00:10:13: On the other hand, what I'm seeing in today's business environments is that

00:10:19: there are quite a few voices coming up, again, I would say, that think

00:10:26: that this people centric leadership is

00:10:30: too soft.

00:10:31: And for example, when I had a, a conversation around this topic or a

00:10:35: presentation around this topic to a, a room full of leaders, one of them came

00:10:40: to me afterwards and said Christine, if they don't, if they don't wanna

00:10:43: work with me, they just should leave.

00:10:46: So what's your view on that?

00:10:47: And he's right, they're gonna leave.

00:10:49: Not that they should leave, but they will leave.

00:10:51: And then so is that, what, is that the kind of leader you want to be?

00:10:54: Is that what you want on your legacy that you turned over your staff and

00:10:58: then you think about that maybe that leader gets results, but at what cost?

00:11:03: And what cost to the company?

00:11:05: So one of the, one of the problems in organizations is, let's just take

00:11:09: that leader for instance, doesn't matter what department he's in.

00:11:13: His department probably doesn't get hit with the recruitment costs that

00:11:17: the HR function probably absorbs.

00:11:20: So when that person leaves, then all that recruitment costs all that

00:11:25: on the job training, onboarding, all that may not hit his budget.

00:11:30: So he may not see the impact, but the company sees the impact

00:11:34: because it is gonna cost the company when an employee leaves.

00:11:37: Plus, he will get impacted when the rest of the team has to pick up the slack from

00:11:44: the person who left, or multiple people who leave, which is gonna cause stress

00:11:49: and emotional unwell being in his team, and probably friction and more drama.

00:11:54: So the cost is maybe not on the bottom line, but the cost is there

00:11:59: and it's gonna impact his team.

00:12:02: Perhaps impact his results down the road.

00:12:04: Yeah.

00:12:04: And even when I was thinking about it, even when the person is still in the

00:12:07: company, if they're not, if they're not happy, they won't do the same quality of

00:12:13: work and quantity of work they would do if they would be happy there, wouldn't they?

00:12:18: They'll do the bare minimum.

00:12:19: They'll do exactly what they're told.

00:12:21: And it goes back with my comment earlier.

00:12:23: You've hired their brain and now they're not bringing their brain to work, they're

00:12:27: not bringing their passion to work.

00:12:29: They'll, they're bringing their skillset.

00:12:31: They'll accomplish their tasks and that's it.

00:12:33: And they, they won't evangelize anything.

00:12:37: They won't be happy.

00:12:37: They won't necessarily be a distraction.

00:12:39: They're not gonna be always a negative aspect to them.

00:12:42: Not like a bad apple.

00:12:44: But, they're gonna get the bare minimum.

00:12:46: And so that's a wasted asset because that person has so many more

00:12:50: capabilities that could be leveraged.

00:12:53: And often when a different boss comes into that department, suddenly those

00:12:57: people who are only giving it just the minimum, suddenly becomes stars because

00:13:02: they're allowed to bloom, they're allowed to flower, they're allowed to progress.

00:13:06: So the person's only hurting himself and hurting his organization.

00:13:09: There's no negative.

00:13:10: If he changed, if he changed around to being a people-centric leader, I'm not

00:13:15: saying he get, this is instead of results.

00:13:17: I'm not saying you, you have pizza parties every Friday that you're not saying to

00:13:21: people, come to work when you want to, no, there's still structure, there's

00:13:24: still organization, but it's a better environment for the team and therefore

00:13:30: the team produces better results.

00:13:31: Wow.

00:13:32: And so you, you say, positive feedback and feedback overall, or

00:13:37: not positive feedback, but feedback when someone has done something good.

00:13:42: And also yeah, providing feedback overall is a great step.

00:13:46: Micro mentoring or mentoring overall is a great step.

00:13:49: So what else can I do as a leader if I wanna really be human-centric?

00:13:57: Remember that God gave you two ears and one mouth.

00:14:01: Listen twice as much as you speak as a leader, you'll learn a lot more.

00:14:06: And I've got a couple leaders I coach and one of 'em, I said recently, you're,

00:14:10: you know what one of your problems is?

00:14:12: You're always the smartest person in the room, and so you're in the wrong room

00:14:15: because you're not learning, you're not leading, and so you don't bring in people

00:14:19: who have different skill sets than you,

00:14:21: different capabilities are gonna stretch you that you're gonna learn.

00:14:23: But listen to the ideas.

00:14:25: Listen to the concerns, listen to what's not being said in the room and then

00:14:30: you're gonna get greater involvement from your people because success comes

00:14:34: through people involvement, not people executing comes from their involvement.

00:14:38: Now, you have traveled the world and not only traveled, but

00:14:41: also lived in different places.

00:14:43: What kind of differences have you seen there in the different cultures?

00:14:49: There are many differences, particularly organizational.

00:14:52: I lived in Asia for 21 years and Asia, you can't think of, like Europe, you can't

00:14:56: think of Asia as just one melting pot.

00:14:58: Japanese culture is very different from the culture in Thailand

00:15:02: than from Malaysia, than from India, Indonesia, any place else.

00:15:05: So part of this is also, we have to understand the, the country

00:15:09: culture of the of the people culture and then the corporate culture.

00:15:12: And sometimes the corporate culture will overrule the local culture.

00:15:17: And that can be good.

00:15:17: When I was the vice president of a, of marketing in a US bank in Singapore.

00:15:23: We had a very different corporate culture.

00:15:25: We had a very Citibank type culture.

00:15:28: Citibanks bank I worked for, compared to the local banks.

00:15:31: In the local banks.

00:15:32: It was very Asian, very hierarchical decision making was centered upwards

00:15:37: and people wouldn't make decisions.

00:15:39: They were always waited to be told, and that at that time was very Asian.

00:15:44: It's changing a little bit now, but at Citibank.

00:15:47: I had people, assistant vice presidents making decisions.

00:15:51: I had people managing level making decisions, and that was good.

00:15:54: We forced decision making down as low as we could do it.

00:15:58: And yeah, sometimes we made mistakes, but we recover from

00:16:01: those mistakes and people learn.

00:16:03: So the corporate culture is very important to what we're talking about, but also

00:16:07: the the culture of the organization, or sorry, the culture of the country.

00:16:10: So for instance, in Thailand, I would never praise somebody in

00:16:15: public because they would back off.

00:16:17: They don't wanna be praised.

00:16:18: I'd pull 'em aside and say, Hey, you did a great job.

00:16:21: Here's what you did well, and here's, blah, blah, blah,

00:16:23: you're very specific about it.

00:16:24: But if you praise somebody in Thailand, they go, oh, like this.

00:16:27: No.

00:16:27: It was a team effort.

00:16:28: It was a team effort because they get embarrassed, because

00:16:30: it is such a collective collectivist society in Thailand.

00:16:34: So you also have to understand that as well when you're leading people

00:16:38: internationally to understand these little nuances between the cultures.

00:16:43: And where would you see, because I'm a European.

00:16:45: I'm German.

00:16:46: So where would you see the American culture at this point?

00:16:52: Unfortunately I think the American culture is also moving a little

00:16:55: bit in the wrong direction.

00:16:56: It's moving a little bit towards the authoritarian side, and that's starting

00:16:59: at the very top of the country.

00:17:01: And I think that's where we're seeing some of these leaders who are

00:17:03: saying, return to the office or else.

00:17:06: And they're also gonna find the, or else is gonna take place.

00:17:09: I think we're gonna see the great resignation 2.0

00:17:13: happening in parts of 2026 if this continues.

00:17:17: 'cause that lack of flexibility that people want, people need to be effective.

00:17:22: But the American business cultures always still remains.

00:17:27: Time is money is the underlying aspect.

00:17:29: So often I get involved in, in trying to help people work multiculturally.

00:17:35: I actually wrote a book called Partnering Successfully with American Business Firms.

00:17:39: And it talked about, like in India.

00:17:42: In India, they wanna spend the first 10 or 15 minutes talking just socially

00:17:45: about themselves, sports, family, and American goes in the meeting and they

00:17:49: go, okay, we got 20 minutes, let's, what's the first point on the agenda?

00:17:54: And and Germans are a little like that, not as, not necessarily but whereas

00:17:58: the Spanish and Italians are gonna be more like people in India, they

00:18:02: wanna socialize a little bit more,

00:18:03: they wanna, have a little bit of friendliness to it.

00:18:06: So people have to adapt to each other's cultures.

00:18:08: I'm not saying one has to totally turned, but you have to go back and forth, but

00:18:12: most importantly, understand each other.

00:18:15: When I go to Japan, I have a suit and tie on.

00:18:18: My voice lowers.

00:18:20: I'm very respectful.

00:18:22: I'm more quieter in my meetings.

00:18:25: I don't talk first.

00:18:26: I'll let other people talk first.

00:18:27: That's the Japanese culture.

00:18:29: I understand that.

00:18:29: Like I said, I lived in Asia for 21 years

00:18:32: I flex my style when particularly I'm in their country.

00:18:36: Now, if a Japanese person comes to America and I have a business meeting with them

00:18:40: not flexing as much, I still have probably more of my American characteristics

00:18:45: in place, so to speak.

00:18:47: Like that little more hand gestures I would have if I had the meeting

00:18:50: in San Francisco, rather in Tokyo, my hands are in my lap or on the

00:18:54: desk and, just nodding my head.

00:18:56: So that makes sense.

00:18:57: So understanding that these nuances again, are very important.

00:19:00: Because we're dealing with people.

00:19:01: Yeah.

00:19:02: And as you said at the beginning, there are also, there is the differences

00:19:05: within the cultures, but also then the difference between people

00:19:08: because we're not all the same.

00:19:09: And to me it's always surprising, really, when I work with leaders that

00:19:13: they're wow, I hadn't thought about that.

00:19:15: That other people make decisions in a different way and have different

00:19:19: kind of motivations than me.

00:19:20: So that's a, it's a very important point.

00:19:23: Now you talked about being flexible, adjusting to different types of

00:19:27: personalities and also different cultures.

00:19:30: What is the part that you would not flex?

00:19:33: What is it that is the kind of core of, humony centric leadership.

00:19:39: The things you don't flex are things that involve legal, ethical.

00:19:46: For policies that are not flexible for what, for instance, of a policy

00:19:50: like, no weapons on, on, on on site, or, many of the oil companies have

00:19:55: no alcohol including in their car.

00:19:57: You can like you cannot have alcohol in the trunk or boot of your car and drive

00:20:02: onto the parking lot of their facilities, you can't, that's a firing offense.

00:20:06: Those are non-negotiables.

00:20:08: Something that's socially inappropriate, foul language, sexual innuendos, bullying.

00:20:14: Unfortunately there's a fine line there,

00:20:15: bullying still happens in some organizations.

00:20:18: But anything along those lines, there's no room for flexibility there.

00:20:22: There's flexibility to the point of maybe a one time warning on certain things.

00:20:27: But that's it.

00:20:28: One time it's two strikes and you're out, so to speak.

00:20:31: So there are some core things that particularly when it comes to

00:20:34: ethics and legal, and anything that has huge financial ramifications,

00:20:39: you can't commit the company to expenditures that it gets forward.

00:20:43: Now, let me come back to an individual leader.

00:20:45: So let's say that I am a new leader and I, maybe I just take on a

00:20:52: role or a new team or whatever.

00:20:54: So what are my first indicators so that others can clearly

00:21:00: see that I am a human centric

00:21:07: humanic harmony related leader.

00:21:12: Great, great.

00:21:14: And I, this happened recently and I was coaching somebody on this and they

00:21:17: asked something similar and I said, when you go in that first meeting, and

00:21:19: this person was coming from outside the organization as well, I said

00:21:24: and he said, how do I build trust?

00:21:27: How do with them.

00:21:30: I said, how have you done in the past?

00:21:31: He says, normally I go in and tell 'em this is how you build trust with me.

00:21:34: And I said, don't do that.

00:21:35: I want you to walk in that room and look at the people and tell

00:21:39: them it's safe right out front.

00:21:41: I trust you.

00:21:43: Here's how you can lose my trust.

00:21:44: You can lie, you can sweep a problem under the, you can blame somebody else.

00:21:50: You can not come to me when it's obvious, this is beyond your capability.

00:21:55: And that's why I'm here.

00:21:56: I'm here to help you.

00:21:57: You, if you spread innuendos about this is how you will lose my trust.

00:22:01: But we're starting off on the basis of trust, and I hope you trust me.

00:22:07: And here's how I'm gonna show you, I'm gonna

00:22:10: walk my talk.

00:22:11: I'm gonna be transparent, i'm gonna tell you when I don't have the answers.

00:22:14: 'cause I will admit right now I don't have all the answers, but I do believe

00:22:18: that together, this team and I, we can come up with good ideas, good solutions.

00:22:23: So let's work together.

00:22:25: And

00:22:25: start from there.

00:22:26: So you say trust is should already be in the room.

00:22:30: Not the one thing that I'm working towards.

00:22:33: Yeah.

00:22:33: Why should I, why should you have to earn my trust if I work for you?

00:22:37: Wait a second.

00:22:37: I've been hired here.

00:22:38: The people who hired you, trust me because they hired me before you.

00:22:41: So all these things that go through people's heads, I

00:22:43: think that's the first thing.

00:22:45: The second thing I advise leaders to do when you wanna make a change.

00:22:50: You're gonna think about it for days, weeks, hours, whatever.

00:22:54: And not constantly, but it's gonna be on your mind.

00:22:57: And then when you get ready to present it, typically a leader will call a meeting

00:23:00: for an hour, introduce the change in the first 15 minutes, and then spend the

00:23:05: next 45 minutes saying, okay, let's talk about how we're gonna implement this.

00:23:08: When you introduce change, the first thing on everyone's

00:23:11: mind is, What's in it for me?

00:23:13: How is this gonna impact me?

00:23:15: And then, how's this gonna impact my work?

00:23:17: And how's this gonna impact my project?

00:23:19: And all these things are in their head, and, but you're asking right

00:23:23: away to talk about how to execute.

00:23:25: So I suggest now hold two meetings, have the first meeting, call a 20 minute

00:23:29: meeting, or 30 minute meeting if you want.

00:23:32: Introduce the change.

00:23:33: Explain why the change is gonna happen and when, and the

00:23:37: permutations of it, everything.

00:23:38: And then ask people to think about it for two days and come back with their

00:23:42: ideas of how to implement it, but more importantly, come back with what do they

00:23:47: see as the hurdles, that we might face that I haven't thought of as a leader, and

00:23:52: what other opportunities have I not seen?

00:23:55: You're on the front lines.

00:23:56: You're out there, you're out there talking with the customers, i'm not,

00:23:59: what are the opportunities I don't see?

00:24:02: Now, let's talk about that two days or three days from now.

00:24:04: So let them have time to digest it.

00:24:07: They're gonna talk about it amongst themselves.

00:24:08: That's fine.

00:24:09: Let 'em talk about it.

00:24:10: Let 'em get it outta their system.

00:24:11: Oh, this is a crazy idea.

00:24:12: Oh, boss is stupid.

00:24:13: Oh, here we go again.

00:24:15: Let 'em get it outta the system.

00:24:16: Now you can have a productive 30 or 45 minute meeting on how to execute it.

00:24:21: And you're gonna get greater buy-in from the team because now they're participating

00:24:26: in the discussion on execution.

00:24:29: They don't need to participate in the discussion of what,

00:24:32: they need to participate in the discussion of how to do it.

00:24:36: Does that make sense?

00:24:37: It makes perfect sense.

00:24:39: And I think the one change that is... has already started, and that

00:24:44: will probably change the business environment quite a bit more is AI.

00:24:50: So how do you see this human leadership capabilities and how

00:24:56: they will become... what of the leadership capabilities will become

00:25:01: non-negotiable in an AI driven workplace?

00:25:07: I am not sure yet, Christine.

00:25:09: It's still early days, other than the ones we talked about earlier.

00:25:12: I think, I think what leaders will need to do is set the standards for how they

00:25:17: want AI used in their organization.

00:25:21: Now I'm a writer.

00:25:22: I will use AI for research purposes only.

00:25:26: I will not have AI write a chapter of my book.

00:25:30: I take pride in my writing.

00:25:32: So that's my standard as a, as an author.

00:25:34: I my, my graphic artist will use AI to create my covers.

00:25:38: That's fine.

00:25:39: That's his skill using AI.

00:25:41: But I'm not gonna use AI to, to write a book or write an article

00:25:44: based on my book or anything else.

00:25:46: So those are my standards.

00:25:47: So in an organization, the leader has to say, how are we gonna use AI

00:25:52: and how are we going to double check the accuracy, because one of the

00:25:56: issues still AI can give us a lot of.

00:25:59: False information.

00:26:00: And so how are we gonna double check whatever we're

00:26:03: using AI for in that regard?

00:26:06: So now using AI for efficiency to your spreadsheets your calendar,

00:26:12: use it as... i've worked with a leader recently.

00:26:15: We used AI to create a draft strategy, which is really good because it got

00:26:19: some ideas on paper and a couple ideas that he had not thought of.

00:26:24: But then he and I worked together on building, flushing that out

00:26:28: so that it fit the organization.

00:26:30: So it's a, it's a tool to be used without a doubt, but it's not,

00:26:35: it's not the only tool and it doesn't replace creativity and

00:26:39: cognitive inputs and decision making.

00:26:43: And I guess the human aspect of leadership doesn't change with it either.

00:26:46: I don't think so.

00:26:47: I, here's what worries me is if it does, it's gonna make inauthentic.

00:26:51: I was talking with a gentleman the other day about feedback and he

00:26:54: said, oh I am gonna go to, i'll just get AI to write me some sentences.

00:26:58: I'll put in this, the feedback form, the annual performance review, that's

00:27:01: what it, so he is gonna submit the annual performance review to AI and

00:27:05: have AI give him some sentences to use.

00:27:07: And I said if you use 'em verbatim, they're gonna come across inauthentic.

00:27:10: So if you, again, if you wanna use that as a draft to get your

00:27:12: ideas to now be more specific.

00:27:15: When you talk with the employee, great.

00:27:17: But if you just read a bunch of AI generated statements in a

00:27:20: performance review, that person's gonna see you so inauthentic and your

00:27:25: trust is gonna go out the window.

00:27:27: Yeah.

00:27:28: So use it more as a, as you would have used an assistant

00:27:31: probably in earlier times.

00:27:32: Not so much as that...

00:27:34: i, that's what ai, that's what you should talk to AI as if it's your

00:27:36: assistant you talk to that it's your intern is the best example I'm given.

00:27:40: Go find me this.

00:27:41: Go look at this.

00:27:42: Go modify this.

00:27:43: Let's see what it comes back with.

00:27:44: Now let's sit down.

00:27:46: And that's some basic research.

00:27:48: Let's figure out how we're, what we're gonna do going forward.

00:27:51: Wow.

00:27:52: And as the last question, what is your vision overall?

00:27:57: Where does leadership go to move to over the next few years?

00:28:04: And honestly, I hope it moves more towards a Humony leadership style.

00:28:07: Whether people wanna call it Humony or not, or just call

00:28:09: it people-centric leadership.

00:28:11: I think the organizations that inculcate, now, here's the other thing,

00:28:16: Christine, an entire organization doesn't have to inculcate people-centric

00:28:20: leadership, just the department does.

00:28:21: A manager of a team manager can do.

00:28:23: So this doesn't have to start at the top.

00:28:25: Anybody who leads a team of people, whether it's.

00:28:28: Two people, 20 people, 200, or 200,000 if you're the CEO, can

00:28:33: become a people-centric leader.

00:28:35: So don't, this is not something people sit around and wait for the

00:28:39: CEO to read the book and say, okay, we're gonna change our style here.

00:28:42: No, you change.

00:28:43: You read it, you change and implement it within the part of the

00:28:47: organization that you can influence.

00:28:49: And then you're gonna get results, and then you're gonna get promoted,

00:28:52: and now you can put it into a larger part of the organization.

00:28:55: So this is a good career path for people because people who use these

00:29:00: concepts are going to achieve results.

00:29:03: Again, it's not people instead of results.

00:29:04: You're gonna get, you're gonna have lower employee turnover, you're

00:29:08: gonna have higher innovation, higher creativity, sustained results.

00:29:13: Who do you thinks it can get promoted when it comes around for the next opportunity?

00:29:16: You are.

00:29:17: So it's...

00:29:18: and you then have the capabilities of becoming a leader because I have

00:29:23: seen so many individual contributors being promoted and they failed as

00:29:28: leaders because they did not have that.

00:29:32: Or any other thing.

00:29:32: Or anything else, they just, they're told on Thursday they're gonna

00:29:35: take over the team on Monday and they have, no no help in doing so.

00:29:39: And so they lead the way they've been led.

00:29:41: Or actually, in truth, they manage the way they've been managed

00:29:45: and they don't become leaders.

00:29:47: So very few people have had good leaders to mimic.

00:29:50: So we're hopefully changing that.

00:29:52: That's, that.

00:29:53: I'm sure.

00:29:54: So where can people find more about your work.

00:29:59: I'm on LinkedIn.

00:30:00: It's Steven Howard.

00:30:01: There's a few.

00:30:01: Steven Howards with the, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona, so you can find that.

00:30:05: I'm on Amazon.

00:30:06: The name of the book is Humony Leadership.

00:30:08: I've written a more recent book you see there by my name, Humony Mindset,

00:30:12: which takes this concept out of the workplace, into the public world.

00:30:15: Or just write me a Steven.

00:30:18: Steven@humonyleadership.com

00:30:26: and I'll reply within 48 hours.

00:30:27: I do travel a bit, so I, I may not reply the same day, but give me 48

00:30:32: hours and I'll respond to any emails.

00:30:34: Wow, that's wonderful.

00:30:36: Thank you so much for all your wonderful wisdom and insights and yeah.

00:30:41: I'm looking forward to you staying connected.

00:30:45: Thank you, Christine.

00:30:46: Great conversation.

00:30:47: I loved it.

00:30:47: It was a very nice, open conversation, very enjoyable.

00:30:51: Thank you.

00:30:52: This was Lead.

00:30:53: Well, now what is the one thing that you're taking away from this episode?

00:30:58: Please share in the comments below and do share the podcast with your friends

00:31:01: and family, but only if you like it.