Ep 115. Be Patient, But Not Passive

00:00:00: Lot of myths I see from the employee side is it's up to my

00:00:02: manager to further my career.

00:00:04: It's up to my manager to get me my next role to understand what I need.

00:00:08: And there should be components of that, but really it needs to

00:00:13: be intentional from your side.

00:00:14: Where would you like to go and give them that feedback so they can help guide you.

00:00:19: Hi, and welcome to Lead Well.

00:00:27: I have a wonderful guest today.

00:00:29: Nicole Fronek.

00:00:30: Hi Nicole.

00:00:32: Hi.

00:00:32: So good to see you.

00:00:34: When I opened your brief and I saw the two horses, I was like, I have to talk to this

00:00:42: person because I'm a horse enthusiast.

00:00:44: Oh, wonderful.

00:00:46: There's a long story behind it, but I can give you the short, it's the Chinese.

00:00:51: Zodiac sign for my business partner and I, we're both horses.

00:00:55: And we really love the idea of the, just their power and their performance

00:01:02: and the beauty, and we just really were drawn to horses as well.

00:01:05: So this logo kind of came with the yin and yang, how we support each

00:01:09: other, we have each other's back.

00:01:10: And it's just really looked sharp and a very good artist friend of ours,

00:01:14: local in the Black Hills, Daniel James, supported us with the logo

00:01:18: design and also the cover for the book.

00:01:20: Wow.

00:01:21: Wonderful.

00:01:22: And what a coincidence.

00:01:24: I'm a Fire Horse.

00:01:26: It's your year, it's your big year.

00:01:28: Yeah.

00:01:29: So it's my business partner.

00:01:30: Yeah.

00:01:31: He's a Fire Horse.

00:01:31: So we were very excited.

00:01:33: We're like, we're this year we, I want big things out of you.

00:01:36: So hey, that's fantastic.

00:01:38: Very exciting.

00:01:39: I still have a little bit of time yet, but it's nice to have your year.

00:01:42: When we're done with this segment of the interview, I'll have to ask

00:01:45: you, what's your big fire enthusiasm for the year to cap off your

00:01:50: fire Horse year.

00:01:51: Yeah.

00:01:52: Yeah, we can talk about that.

00:01:53: And then the other thing we have in common, we just learned that you have

00:01:56: spent five years in Munich, my hometown.

00:02:00: Yeah.

00:02:00: Yes I did.

00:02:02: Went for work which was fantastic.

00:02:04: And it was supposed to be a one year extravaganza and then it

00:02:08: just I was fortunate timing, luck, effort just intention.

00:02:13: Found a role with HP.

00:02:15: And what was really nice is because I was so willing to try different

00:02:20: things, I met so many wonderful people and they kept renewing my contract.

00:02:23: So one year turned to about four and it gave me some really good

00:02:26: material for the book as well.

00:02:27: I learned quite a lot, but traveling was the main reason that

00:02:31: we went and we did, we traveled

00:02:33: a lot and it was phenomenal.

00:02:34: We really miss those days and haven't been back for a while.

00:02:37: We're actually planning on going later this year for a holiday.

00:02:40: Oh, nice.

00:02:41: Nice.

00:02:42: So

00:02:42: have to go to the Dallmayr Cafe.

00:02:44: We love it.

00:02:44: Oh yeah.

00:02:45: So beautiful.

00:02:46: Yeah,

00:02:47: absolutely.

00:02:48: Yeah.

00:02:49: In the middle of the city.

00:02:51: Yeah.

00:02:51: So you not only have spent time in Munich, but you have spent over

00:02:54: two decades working with global organizations and Fortune 100 companies.

00:02:59: Helping people take intentional ownership of their careers, which is wonderful.

00:03:05: And do you have authored a book?

00:03:07: Just mention it.

00:03:08: The title is Corporate Coach Approach, A Practical Guide for

00:03:12: Navigating Complexity at Work.

00:03:14: So this is personal branding, but also stakeholder

00:03:20: engagement and decisive action.

00:03:23: And what I would love to talk.

00:03:25: With you today is about what career development really requires in today's

00:03:31: corporate environment, because I think that has changed quite a bit and has

00:03:35: been changing, and how leaders can move from reacting to taking initiative

00:03:43: and really shaping their path.

00:03:47: So when you say having an intentional career, I guess

00:03:54: that doesn't happen by chance.

00:03:55: What does this look like?

00:03:58: What do I need to do when I want to have a career?

00:04:03: And I'll go back to my original statement with HP.

00:04:05: It was a bit of luck in timing.

00:04:07: I was in the right place at the right time, but it was a three month

00:04:10: contract, so I was very intentional with extending my contract because

00:04:14: my work visa, my, my tourist visa was contingent on having that role.

00:04:19: So I spent a lot of time, how can I learn, how can I grow, how can I add

00:04:22: value for this client or my manager?

00:04:25: Or how can I make my manager look good?

00:04:26: How can I, how can I utilize the strenghts that I have and

00:04:31: bring extra content to the team.

00:04:34: So really it, there is as I said, a bit of luck, but you really have

00:04:39: to be thoughtful about what you're providing and is it adding to the

00:04:43: overall objective of the project,

00:04:46: of the team, of the account of the client, whatever the case might be.

00:04:50: But you have to be really considerate about your action, your

00:04:53: quality of work, your consistency, and then your reliability.

00:04:57: They have to know what to expect from you, and when they have,

00:05:01: when their expectations are met, then they can have comfort working

00:05:04: with you even a little bit more.

00:05:07: And I think I picked one thing that you just said that was always very important

00:05:11: for me as well, is that at the end of the day, I worked for my manager.

00:05:15: I, my, my goal was to make my manager successful.

00:05:19: And I heard you say that as well.

00:05:21: Is that correct?

00:05:21: Yes.

00:05:22: That's correct.

00:05:24: And then also too, you never really quite know how those relationships go.

00:05:28: Some of my managers even said, Ooh, what can I do to help you?

00:05:31: Because it's very clear you don't need to be managed.

00:05:33: You just need somebody to support you.

00:05:35: And at one point I might be, you might be my manager.

00:05:38: So it's really good to have that collaborative relationship and

00:05:41: that can be part of your brand.

00:05:43: Part of your distinct qualities that you are messaging that you

00:05:46: want folks to understand is you.

00:05:48: And when you have that integrity built into your brand and your quality of

00:05:53: work, people will recognize that and they will feel really good working

00:05:56: with you and having you at their side.

00:05:58: Because you want them to succeed.

00:05:59: You you're not intentionally looking for ways to do the opposite.

00:06:03: You want everyone to do well and be in a good light, and you can be a part of that.

00:06:07: It really feels good.

00:06:08: And it will only help you along the way with your intentional, brand

00:06:11: management and your career growth.

00:06:13: And another thing that I've always find really interesting and

00:06:17: important is, I have quite a few clients, leadership leaders, that

00:06:22: say I, I'm doing such a great work, and people will notice over time.

00:06:29: And in so many cases it does not happen.

00:06:33: Because everyone expects them to do great work and everyone accepts that, but they

00:06:38: still don't get that visibility, I guess they would need to be on a career path.

00:06:44: So what's your advice for those?

00:06:47: It is.

00:06:48: I hear that often, and it's a point I speak to.

00:06:50: If you sit there and do your work and you are polite and you check

00:06:53: all the boxes, that's not enough.

00:06:56: That's the expectation.

00:06:57: You're being paid, you're getting your paycheck.

00:06:59: That's that.

00:07:00: You really have to look for opportunities to be visible, to highlight your skills.

00:07:05: Volunteer for different assignments or ask how you can job shadow or

00:07:09: maybe add another skill set or get a certification or a training of some sort.

00:07:13: You always need to build and get that next trick up your sleeve, if you will.

00:07:17: But you can't be stagnant.

00:07:18: You really have to stand out and do it appropriately.

00:07:22: And you have folks that wanna be in the spotlight for the wrong

00:07:25: reasons, or there may be taking the credit where the credit is not due.

00:07:29: So you have to be really thoughtful about building it on your merit and your

00:07:33: skill and what you can add to the group.

00:07:35: But just sitting back and waiting, that I think is good at the beginning when

00:07:40: you're observing and you're learning, but once you feel confident and you

00:07:45: have enough information to add value and that not just talk, then I think

00:07:49: that's really when you start shaping your career path with that client,

00:07:52: organization, whatever the case might be.

00:07:55: And what are some, because you're saying you're doing it in the

00:07:58: right way and at the right time.

00:08:01: So what is your, what is the right way there?

00:08:04: So what is it that I need to be careful about?

00:08:08: Because otherwise I can also become a threat to managers,

00:08:13: which I've also come across.

00:08:15: So what's a smart way of coming about

00:08:18: that.

00:08:18: Yeah.

00:08:18: No, you're right.

00:08:19: The smart way in, from my experience, what I've done is I've looked for

00:08:23: different swim lanes, different opportunities, meaning it's

00:08:26: not a saturated market or role.

00:08:28: I've crafted divisions, roles, titles that aren't already in

00:08:33: existence, but I see a need.

00:08:35: And then, so that way I'm adding to the group, I'm adding to the revenue stream.

00:08:40: I'm giving the manager another direct report or something of that nature

00:08:43: where I'm adding to their capability or their division, but I'm not imposing

00:08:49: on their skillset or their whatever initiatives that they're working on.

00:08:53: Or alternatively, you can do health checks with them and say, I'm very

00:08:57: interested in what you're working on,

00:08:58: can I support you with that or can I learn from it?

00:09:01: There's all these questions that you have about interviews, right?

00:09:04: And I'll come full circle, but the one I always find interesting

00:09:08: is when they say, oh, where do you see yourself in five years?

00:09:10: And they say, oh, in your role.

00:09:12: I'm like that isn't really gonna set a very positive tone.

00:09:14: I am here to take your job.

00:09:15: Let me show you how to do it better.

00:09:17: You really have to be considerate about, you're there to support them.

00:09:21: You're there to guide them and help them with your experience.

00:09:24: They've brought you on because they see something, and more often

00:09:27: than not, they're going to help you guide your career into something

00:09:31: better and different because they see you as an advocate or an ally.

00:09:34: Now there is gonna be times where you've done everything appropriate, good timing,

00:09:38: good... what's the word, a moral compass.

00:09:41: But there's just gonna be folks that you don't have that chemistry

00:09:44: or that connection and there's nothing you've done right or wrong.

00:09:46: It's just not a good fit.

00:09:48: And at that point, how you ask me when do I know it's the appropriate time, you can

00:09:52: feel, you can get a sense, when things are going the direction that you didn't

00:09:56: expect or you're not feeling the same, I guess, mutual respect on both sides.

00:10:02: Maybe it's just time to look for another opportunity, look for

00:10:04: another person to work for or with.

00:10:06: You don't need to stay in a place because it's convenient or it's comfortable.

00:10:12: I know in Germany, most folks stay at their role for quite a long time, years,

00:10:16: decades, and to your point of things have changed, I don't know if it's still that

00:10:21: way today, but I think folks are moving around in roles more than they used to.

00:10:27: And so you don't need to stay somewhere just for the sake of saying if you

00:10:31: don't think it's a good fit any longer.

00:10:33: I think it has changed.

00:10:34: It did change and then now it has changed again because there is

00:10:38: this uncertainty in the market and the fear of not getting a job.

00:10:42: Because we had a certain period of time where there was there were

00:10:46: more jobs available than actually associates that wanted to take it.

00:10:50: And nowadays we have quite a few people who are staying in their role.

00:10:55: And they would wanna go somewhere else, but they don't have the courage to do so,

00:11:02: because they fear they will be out of job.

00:11:04: So I think the whole environment has changed pretty significantly

00:11:09: over the last two to three years.

00:11:12: Yeah, interesting.

00:11:13: And when I came over to Germany, I had an interior design degree and I remember

00:11:18: trucking all through the town and I went to every designer in every building

00:11:22: I could find and they said, you just, you have to have this certain criteria.

00:11:26: You have to have architecture, you have to have all these things as completely

00:11:29: different landscape than the US.

00:11:31: And so to just the right luck in timing, there was HP, which was an American

00:11:35: company, and they needed somebody who was already there, didn't need to be

00:11:39: relocated, spoke English fluently.

00:11:41: And I checked all the boxes.

00:11:42: But I had to adapt from an interior design to communications

00:11:47: and it was much different, but I was willing to give it a shot.

00:11:50: I've never been complacent.

00:11:53: I've not had the luxury.

00:11:54: I've, I moved a lot when we were children.

00:11:56: I moved a lot as an adult, and so I'm always finding ways that I can adapt and

00:12:01: that's really strengthened my skillset.

00:12:03: The roles I have today are because I've been through those kind of

00:12:06: trial and errors and I discuss them in the book, in the chapters.

00:12:10: Each chapter, there's a few stories and it kind of shares how I arrived

00:12:14: at techniques and things that supported in my career growth.

00:12:18: Just from simply saying, Hey, I'll give it a shot.

00:12:20: I'm not gonna be proficient right away, but I'm willing to try.

00:12:24: And sometimes that was enough.

00:12:25: Just raising your hand and say I'll give it a go.

00:12:27: And it, it can really open a lot of doors that you weren't expecting.

00:12:31: And it also gives you a great opportunity to learn and expand your horizon.

00:12:35: Yeah.

00:12:36: Oh yeah.

00:12:36: And it was so funny.

00:12:37: There's one story in the book where I talk about my, my manager had wanted me

00:12:41: to write some code in different languages and he said, do you speak French?

00:12:44: And I said, Oui, and I didn't, but I knew I had folks that I worked with that did.

00:12:49: And so I went and down some cappuccinos and we sat at the table and I gave them my

00:12:53: assignment and they translated it for me.

00:12:54: 'cause this was back when you couldn't go on to AI or have any kind of translators.

00:12:58: And I created this really great network, and so then I did this with Italian

00:13:02: and I did this with other things, and I met a lot of really great colleagues

00:13:05: just from understanding who my SMEs, my subject matter experts were in my network

00:13:11: and going and speaking with them and having a coffee, having a conversation

00:13:14: and the, and my manager just thought.

00:13:17: I know all these languages, and I said, I have sources, I have resources, I have

00:13:21: individuals, and he got a kick out of it.

00:13:23: So it was a fun exercise.

00:13:25: But yeah, I learned a lot.

00:13:27: I'm not fluent in either, but I could probably muddle

00:13:29: through some text if I found it.

00:13:31: But German and English, I'm all set.

00:13:33: Wonderful.

00:13:35: That's great.

00:13:36: Now, everything that you described

00:13:40: sounds like a lot of work to me.

00:13:43: Or it can sound like a lot of work.

00:13:45: So when I wanna progress in my career, yes, I have to be really productive.

00:13:52: I have to really be engaged.

00:13:55: On the other hand, I do need to make sure that I can be productive and successful

00:14:02: on the long run.

00:14:04: So what is your advice there?

00:14:06: How can leaders take care of themselves and where do they

00:14:12: maybe sabotage themselves?

00:14:15: I think when you say yes to everything, and that's a really hard... you

00:14:20: have to know what your boundaries are and what your capabilities if,

00:14:24: and it goes back to your brand too.

00:14:26: You don't wanna necessarily take on something that you're not gonna be

00:14:29: exceptional or you are not gonna be able to fulfill in a timely manner.

00:14:33: Like whatever you commit to, you have to fulfill, and you wanna be careful

00:14:37: to do that in the time that's needed.

00:14:39: Now, sometimes you don't have a choice.

00:14:40: You might be what they call voluntold.

00:14:42: And in that case, maybe you give a little bit of expectations at the start.

00:14:46: Here's my calendar, here's my timeline, here's my capabilities.

00:14:50: And maybe from that conversation you can bring in some other experts or you can

00:14:54: bring in some other resources to help you.

00:14:56: You have to have that direct but fair conversation at the top.

00:15:01: As far as burnout, that's a huge topic, right?

00:15:03: Wearing yourself out, working too long, working too hard, and then really.

00:15:07: What are you providing?

00:15:09: Who's going to see it?

00:15:10: What's going to be digested?

00:15:12: Maybe you're working too much and too long for the attention span that's

00:15:16: not really gonna benefit from having it whatever the deliverable might be.

00:15:21: Can it be done in a two page report versus 20?

00:15:24: Can it be done in a two minute quick call versus a hour session?

00:15:29: So knowing your limits, your boundaries where your resources are.

00:15:32: And then really course correcting as you go.

00:15:35: You have a plan when you start.

00:15:36: It's okay that it changes, it should as you learn more.

00:15:39: So just being thoughtful and being aware of those different tools and

00:15:44: parameters and taking the cues as you go.

00:15:46: And making sure that you also limit yourself to what you

00:15:51: know, what you have found out.

00:15:54: What do you have determined to be important for yourself?

00:15:57: Yeah.

00:15:58: Yeah.

00:15:59: And taking your vacations or your holidays, right?

00:16:01: There are a lot of people that are you, you always have

00:16:03: your work with you, which is.

00:16:05: It's a blessing and a curse, but you really need to take that

00:16:08: time to unplug and recharge and really reflect on what am I doing?

00:16:13: Why am I doing it?

00:16:13: Is this what I'm still interested in?

00:16:16: And I've gone on a lot of vacations where I'll see something or talk with

00:16:19: someone and I thought, oh, I hadn't thought of that, or I hadn't seen that.

00:16:21: Or, oh, that's a really great idea.

00:16:23: So you can still become creative and productive in your working life

00:16:30: when you're not thinking about work.

00:16:31: 'cause your mindset changes.

00:16:33: And I do a lot of workshops where we do creative projects with our hands because

00:16:37: they don't, they, these executives don't really have that creativity option.

00:16:42: They're going from meeting to call.

00:16:44: And I have a workshop where we actually repair broken pottery,

00:16:50: and it's a Japanese Kintsugi, and really you've heard of it, okay.

00:16:54: And they really, I the workshop is how do you resolve an issue or a problem or

00:16:59: a challenge, and you do so by learning how to address the problem differently.

00:17:03: And there was a workshop that I did locally, and for five

00:17:05: minutes, the room was silent.

00:17:07: There wasn't a single word.

00:17:08: They were so involved and their mindset totally changed.

00:17:11: And then after that, we had this really impactful conversation because they're

00:17:16: now in a different frame of time.

00:17:17: And one gentleman even said, I really needed that and I didn't realize I did.

00:17:22: So there are different things that you can engage with or different approaches

00:17:27: to, challenges or situations to not have that burnout or not feel like

00:17:31: you're always at the end of the day.

00:17:34: What's it for, and what did I accomplish and what do I wanna do next?

00:17:37: So maybe just having different outlets or different folks in your network.

00:17:41: I'm, I've hit this block, what do you recommend?

00:17:43: Or maybe you've seen that, and that's really what I'm trying to

00:17:45: get across in the book, is there's different ways of trying everything.

00:17:49: Not everything's gonna work exactly the same for everybody,

00:17:51: but here's what's work for me.

00:17:53: Give it a shot, make it your own.

00:17:55: But maybe you haven't thought of it from that angle or that perspective.

00:17:58: Yeah.

00:18:00: And then, yeah, really as you said, it's, not everyone is the same and we all

00:18:05: can... and the other thing that I also always emphasize is I can experiment,

00:18:12: I can try things out, and then I can figure out is it better, worse?

00:18:16: Is it do I wanna continue like that?

00:18:19: But I can have different options and try them.

00:18:25: So we talked a lot about my own career.

00:18:29: So how can I further my own career?

00:18:31: But then as a leader, I also wanna further or strengthen my associates

00:18:37: my employees to have a career.

00:18:41: So what can I do as a leader to help them and support my employees in their career?

00:18:49: And what are the myths and misjudgments that you're seeing there?

00:18:56: Lot of myths I see from the employee side is it's up to my

00:18:58: manager to further my career.

00:19:00: It's up to my manager to get me my next role to understand what I need.

00:19:04: And there should be components of that, but really it needs to

00:19:09: be intentional from your side.

00:19:10: Where would you like to go and give them that feedback so they can help guide you.

00:19:14: They can look for opportunities or they can look for different tasks

00:19:18: or assignments that will suit your strengths and can put wind at your back.

00:19:22: So the, it's really a collaboration.

00:19:25: We need to have dialogue and sometimes it's too much, it's too frequent.

00:19:29: I haven't made grand strides in the last three days.

00:19:32: Can we talk once every other week or whatever the case might be.

00:19:36: So I think a lot of times in my experience, leaders are either

00:19:40: too involved or not enough.

00:19:41: It's really hard to find that balance, and I think it's up to

00:19:44: the employee to help guide them.

00:19:46: I need a little bit more.

00:19:47: I need a little bit less.

00:19:49: Or could I help you with your schedule?

00:19:51: I've noticed you're super busy for this particular two weeks.

00:19:54: I'm good right now.

00:19:55: Let's talk later.

00:19:55: Here's the few things I wanna talk about.

00:19:57: So really setting those again to those expectations or what I have found

00:20:02: has been really helpful is just take a running list, like to, if it's not

00:20:05: urgent, I don't need to interrupt my manager or my team if they're working

00:20:09: on something and it's not urgent.

00:20:10: So I take a little running list and then when we meet, here's

00:20:13: the items to refresh my memory.

00:20:14: I always say I don't have an excellent memory.

00:20:16: I'm very organized.

00:20:17: So you can't really replace your weaknesses, but you can strengthen

00:20:22: them through your, strengthen them through your strengths.

00:20:25: That sounds a little funny, but that's what you're doing,

00:20:27: bolstering them through your strengths.

00:20:29: And so looking for ways that you can re reevaluate what's important right now.

00:20:34: What's urgent?

00:20:35: There's a difference, urgent versus important.

00:20:37: When's the appropriate time that we can have this discussion.

00:20:40: And then some folks just can't be helped.

00:20:42: You really can't care about someone's career more than they do.

00:20:45: And you have to recognize that.

00:20:46: And if you've come to a point where there's really nothing more

00:20:49: we can do for one another, maybe I help you find something else.

00:20:52: Or maybe you consider in the next month trying a new assignment or,

00:20:55: you have to be careful to, you can't necessarily tell someone to leave.

00:20:58: But maybe you have that conversation of is this the right fit?

00:21:01: Are you enjoying it?

00:21:02: I'm, I've seen a change in your tone or your mood or your quality of work.

00:21:07: And it might be something at home or it might be something in their personal life.

00:21:10: You have to, you don't wanna pribe, but maybe just let them know that you're

00:21:13: an ally and you wanna support them.

00:21:17: So there's so many different, you could have a two hour, three hour podcast on

00:21:21: this conversation alone, but the thought that you're even asking that question to

00:21:25: me signals that you are very effective and considerate manager, because some don't.

00:21:30: They just say, it's my way or the highway, and that's all there is.

00:21:33: And maybe that works for you, maybe it doesn't, but it's good to know right up

00:21:38: front what you're, what you'll be getting into when you're working with somebody.

00:21:42: Yeah.

00:21:42: And it's always, as you said, it's always... the highest

00:21:45: responsibility is with the individual and not with anyone else.

00:21:50: And I have a lot of conversations with focus my manager hasn't

00:21:53: scheduled my performance review.

00:21:55: Yes, your performance review, you need to schedule it.

00:21:58: Unless they've specifically said they're going to.

00:22:00: But a lot of folks just sit back and wait and the deadline passes and oh, I

00:22:04: didn't get my review or I didn't have my call, or whatever the case might be.

00:22:08: You have to be in charge of your career.

00:22:11: You have to be intentional with the way you're engaging with folks.

00:22:15: And if you are not, I don't know how you can expect to be

00:22:20: successful if you're not involved.

00:22:21: It's a, it's definitely gotta be accountable on your side.

00:22:25: You can't wait for an organization either.

00:22:27: There's a lot of organizations that say, oh, we have this comprehensive training,

00:22:31: watch this video.

00:22:33: Okay, I need feedback, I need engagement, I need this, I need that.

00:22:36: The other there, there is a lot of opportunities to do independent study,

00:22:41: if you will, but you're still gonna need that communal conversation and networking.

00:22:46: So there's a lot of components to that career development.

00:22:49: Yes, it is a lot of work, to your point, it takes a while, but it does,

00:22:54: you're building, you're learning.

00:22:55: You're not gonna be right out of the gate completely fantastic.

00:22:59: That wouldn't be any fun.

00:23:00: You wanna learn and grow along the way and you meet a lot of

00:23:03: wonderful folks doing that,

00:23:04: it does take time.

00:23:05: You have to be patient, but it's, it's a journey.

00:23:08: So you have to remember that.

00:23:10: Be patient, but not too patient.

00:23:12: Yes.

00:23:13: Yeah.

00:23:13: Patient, but ambitious.

00:23:15: Yeah.

00:23:16: Okay.

00:23:17: Now.

00:23:18: From your book, if listeners remember or learn, just one principle from corporate

00:23:27: coach approach, what should that be?

00:23:31: I would say just that be very intentional and realize that it's

00:23:34: a journey you have to be patient and that you can course correct.

00:23:38: It's really nothing that's going to be a prescriptive one size fits all.

00:23:42: Everybody is gonna have a much different outcome and perspective.

00:23:46: But if you're intentional with your brand and you're consistent, it will occur.

00:23:50: You will have successful opportunities as you go forward.

00:23:55: And just learn from your successes as well as your failures.

00:23:58: Fail fast, reflect, and then move on.

00:24:01: Just keep going forward.

00:24:02: There's gonna be twists and turns, but it will all work out if you just keep trying

00:24:07: and learning from everybody around you.

00:24:09: And it doesn't only sound like a recipe for a career.

00:24:12: It sounds like a recipe also for a successful life overall.

00:24:16: Yeah.

00:24:16: Yeah.

00:24:17: No, I appreciate that.

00:24:18: And it is true and we're spending so much time at work.

00:24:20: We always have we will.

00:24:21: And it's the majority of your schedule, so you should find some joy in it,

00:24:26: as much as you can, but it's really going to, I have wonderful friends

00:24:30: because of work.

00:24:32: One of my clients actually wrote my letter of recommendation for my graduate program.

00:24:38: So you never really know what relationships you're gonna build

00:24:40: from these conversations and having that kind of outlook and mindset.

00:24:45: Yeah, I have bad days.

00:24:46: Everybody does.

00:24:46: And you have moments where you're say, oh I just can't today,

00:24:49: I just need a moment.

00:24:50: That's fine.

00:24:51: We're humans.

00:24:51: We're not robots.

00:24:52: But the long game, the long term mindset is just being patient and

00:24:58: growing and developing and just taking your time and learning from it.

00:25:01: But yeah, it is it's in my opinion, in my experience, the healthiest

00:25:05: approach people want to work with you,

00:25:08: when you have that mindset, when you're constantly upset and worried and stressed

00:25:12: and anxious, it's gonna be really hard.

00:25:15: You wanna, you wanna be attracted to those that you're attracted to and you wanna be

00:25:19: a good role model and provide that kind of attitude and approach towards things.

00:25:23: And you'll meet a lot of fun people doing that.

00:25:26: And it's a lot healthier for yourself as well.

00:25:29: Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:31: And then you get these wonderful opportunities where you get to meet

00:25:33: new friends and join these podcasts, and join interviews and join the

00:25:37: dining room conversation if they will.

00:25:38: You never really know what's gonna, what's gonna happen.

00:25:41: We had a colleague come by last night to pick up something and we ended up having a

00:25:45: 10 minute conversation turn into an hour.

00:25:47: And we have this kind of impromptu workshop and they just said, I

00:25:51: really needed that today, or I hadn't thought about that, and vice versa.

00:25:54: So if you have that, that open mindset and willing to just have a

00:25:59: minute to exchange conversations, it's really can be very insightful.

00:26:04: Wow.

00:26:05: Thank you.

00:26:06: I could go on with you forever.

00:26:09: There is so much wisdom in you and so much insight.

00:26:12: Thank you for that.

00:26:13: Thank you for sharing.

00:26:14: My last question to you really is what is your vision?

00:26:20: My vision?

00:26:21: I, that's a big question, a big answer.

00:26:24: I would just really appreciate and enjoy everybody reading this book and getting

00:26:29: something from it where it just clicks.

00:26:31: They have a minute where they thought I really needed that,

00:26:34: or I really enjoyed that, or

00:26:36: that puts this into more sense or more perspective than I had before.

00:26:41: So the vision would be that everybody learns something from the

00:26:45: book and they can apply it right away and grow in their career as I

00:26:49: have from the experiences shared.

00:26:52: So that would be really the overarching hope and goal.

00:26:56: Is to help everybody regardless where they're at.

00:26:58: Read it, find it interesting.

00:27:00: Send me a note, a ping, a follow, and I would love to hear how it's supported

00:27:06: you or what you've learned from it that maybe I can learn from in return.

00:27:09: It's definitely a dialogue.

00:27:11: Wow.

00:27:11: So let's repeat that title again: corporate Coach Approach.

00:27:15: And where can people find you other than by reading your book?

00:27:21: On Amazon and also I have a webpage twohorseproductions.com

00:27:26: of course.

00:27:27: And then also on Instagram, Facebook, and all just from the website,

00:27:32: all the links are there for you.

00:27:33: So we've made it as easy as possible for you to click and go.

00:27:37: Wonderful.

00:27:38: Yeah.

00:27:38: And of course I will put the links in the show notes as well.

00:27:41: Oh, thank you.

00:27:41: Very kind.

00:27:42: I appreciate that.

00:27:43: Absolutely.

00:27:44: Thank you so much Nicole.

00:27:45: Thank you for all your insights and your, your wonderful ideas about corporate

00:27:49: careers and it was wonderful talking to you and I know our listeners has have

00:27:55: taken away quite a bit from this and yeah remains to say a big thank you.

00:28:02: Oh, thank you so much.

00:28:03: I really appreciate your time.

00:28:05: It's very kind of you to have me here today.

00:28:09: Yeah, thank you.

00:28:12: Yeah, but I hope to see you again and if there's an opportunity I'd love to be

00:28:17: a guest and continue the conversation.

00:28:18: Thank you so much.

00:28:20: This was Lead.

00:28:21: Well, now what is the one thing that you're taking away from this episode?

00:28:26: Please share in the comments below and do share the podcast with your friends

00:28:29: and family, but only if you like it.