Ep 111. Leadership Image: Why Competence Is Not Enough

Christine: Hi, and welcome in this episode today. I have a guest with me, Sharon Burstein. Hi Sharon.

Sharon Hello, how: are you, Christine? It's a pleasure to be with you.

Christine Thank you and it's great to have you. So Sharon, you are an international leadership image: speaker. We'll talk about that. You are an award-winning author and a global consultant who has been decades

helping leaders and: that the leadership image in your world is not about polishing a surface.

So it's not about the outside, it's about the inner alignment: can't wait to hear your ideas about leadership image.

Sharon As you said, leadership is much more,: leadership is what you do. Leadership image is who you are. Christine: Okay.

Sharon So leadership image is inside, outside, top to bottom,: what you do in leadership, but if you don't know what your leadership image is and the image that you project, you may have all the right credentials.

But if you project the: wrong image, doesn't matter what you do, you are not going to be successful. Christine: And so how can I find out what my image is? How do I know?

Sharon: leader, no matter what you do. That number one thing that all successful leaders do is first they have to believe in themselves.

You have to believe in you: because if you don't believe in you, nobody else is gonna believe in you. Even children, can children spot a fake? Christine: Oh yes...

Sharon In a: be a research person and be highly successful, but if you are going to really interact with people,

how you project, how you walk, how you carry yourself,: for where for the job you have or the job that you want. But we do go through a process when I speak.

And it's in the book too. It's in my book.: we go through a variety, you can do it by yourself, but we can do it too, of how to evaluate a lot of those elements.

And yes, they can change over time: because you're going to change and evolve over time. You're gonna grow.

Christine So are you saying that everyone can evolve into a leadership role or are there born: leaders? Sharon: Both. Again, a great question. You, have great questions. There are natural born leaders, no question about it.

And then there are those: bee.

Nothing's also going to get done because everybody needs leaders. So you need a variety of all sorts. And the other thing as a leader, great leaders: also know when to lead and when to follow.

Christine And also, sorry to interrupt here, because I just listened to a book from Brene Brown and I: love her work.

And she was talking about the difference between leadership and management. And I always thought that all manager should become leaders.: Sharon: That's very true. And there's a big difference in management is control. Lots of times it's not leadership. People can be, you could be a dictator and manage

But you are not: leading. Your title does not guarantee you leadership. Leadership is something that you have to earn through respect. Christine: Yeah.

Sharon But the biggest skill of a great leader is: not only listening, but hearing. And there's a big difference between listening and hearing.

You know I'm listening to you.: Yes. But are you hearing what I say? Christine: Yeah.

Sharon Yeah. And leaders also know need. Leaders are visionary. But they have to convey that: message.

And smart leaders are not just about managing people, it's teamwork. So leaders are not about management. They do manage people, but a good: leader you may be going somewhere else.

So I leave this role, if I leave this company, if I sell this company, should it fail because I didn't train somebody. You should be: plan, so often companies, associations, and lots of people do not talk about what the goal and the plan is across departments.

Why: to also look at the more that you communicate your plan, everybody that is part of that company or organization are also ambassadors.

So the more: ideas as a leader and you have great ideas as a leader. Do we have all the ideas

Christine And are we sure that we have the same ideas? If I don't communicate: that to the associates well, how should they know what my ideas are?

Sharon A clear communication and having it come back up. So almost people talking about it: A plan is great, but somebody else may say chairman, that's great, and what if we added this?

What if: it could be better?

Because people in different skill sets at different layers of any organization with what my skillset may be down here, I: for everybody.

So that's when you have to bring in that team. But a real cheerleader isn't just managing. A real leader is a cheerleader. You're cheering your: team. You want to build those skill sets. I want you to succeed. I don't wanna just manage you. If I just manage you. You're not gonna grow. Christine: Yeah.

Sharon What I found out, which: so into the details still, they have such a hard time to let go of the operational business.

Christine And I always share with them this is not what the company is: paying you for. And I think that's the other thing that a lot of people, a lot of leaders, they really have a hard time letting things go. Is that your experience as well?

Sharon It can be, but you have: to train leaders. You have to train people to also be visionary.

You have to bring them in because what's important to me, what's my purpose and passion?: May not be yours.

So you also have to listen to other people. Why are you working for me? Why are you here? Not just for the paycheck, not for just what you're doing, but I wanna know, and if: you are, let's work to that because if there's something that you want, let's all work.

So you're happy. So you are able to have that or achieve that,: freeze. Go, oh my God,

sharon's here. Oh my God, what am I doing? We did something wrong, we screwed up. Or everybody's on edge. As opposed to a really good: how are the kids?

Did you have a good holiday? Just bringing something in so that people are used to you and the reason that also is more effective is people: will open up. Christine: Yeah. Sharon: When you say, how's everything going? Everybody's gonna go fine. And as opposed to, Hey, you know what?

Last week when we were talking about this: of us. And so those types of things, leadership. Is about, a personality too.

It's not hiding, it's not building shame: Face Everything And Rise. So you want people to say, okay, if you make a mistake, we all make mistakes.

Don't make that mistake again. That's the whole: thing. But if you're not making mistakes, you're not trying hard enough. Christine: Yeah.

And I think isn't that also something that a leader needs to be able to, is admitting their own mistakes?: Sharon: Totally. This is where I went, we, I thought we were going and it's clearly not working.

So we're gonna sit down here, we're gonna dissect everything, and we're gonna come up together: nature are also great. And bringing in different layers of people.

Not always just your top management, but sometimes individually or bringing everybody in collective life.: thought about that?

One of the questions I love to ask is, who here has worked for an ineffective leader or known someone who has? Every hand goes up. So: leadership does not come with a title. Leadership is about strength, understanding, courage, and sacrifice.

Christine And I think it: then takes quite some time to build up the trust with your employees, with your followers, and then it's pretty easy to lose that.

So: credibility through that? Sharon: I think it's not the mistake, it's how you handle a mistake. I've also owned media companies under crisis management.

Lying: would be number one. If you want to cover something up and put it away, try and scuttle every way, it's gonna be a disaster.

Make a mistake. Own up to: it. I'm sorry, I made a mistake. We're human. Apologies. We're working on it. I've got a team working on it. We're working on it together.

But: starts to unravel. Christine: Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's something that every human being should be aware of. It's not only relevant for leaders. Sharon: It's taking responsibility.

Everybody: I wasn't really here. I wasn't part of that group, so... A good leader,

a great leader takes responsibility. And will take responsibility for the team: I also publish a magazine and I just had something happen about a month ago with one of my team members and something, a person we were writing about.

Something became a: member saying, Hey, I've got you. I've got your back.

And you have to let people know because like in anything you have to know that I can depend, she can depend on me, I: situation.

And then a good leader will stop and adjust. But a good leader needs to know when to also stop right then and there, whatever you're doing, listen in here and make: some decisions to make those changes and help that out. Because in this particular case, it happened to be a feature article for our January issue.

If I: sometimes just being that extra layer above also gives people confidence. Christine: Yeah.

Sharon At the end of the day, understanding: people, getting your team members to know personal things about one another. Because honestly, we also spend more time at our work jobs, I think, than we do with our families.

Christine: Yeah. And as I said before, at the end of the day, my behavior in my family should not be that different from the behavior in my job role.

Sharon No, you should be one and the: image.

I can't copy yours. It's unique to you. It's like your DNA and it fits you like a glove and understanding the elements, how you walk,: Then we'll talk about how do you introduce yourself, how do you communicate, how do you walk? Shoulders back,

standing erect, believe in you, I mean: on stage. Act as if, be there for confidence.

Your brain will follow. So if you deliver with constant confidence, the message you want: like being an actor, especially if you're doing live theater, being able to read the audience.

If you're an teacher, you need to see when you are teaching students,: if something's, if they're glazing over, if they're enthused, if they're bored out of their minds. You need to be able to pivot and adjust. And say, okay. And care.

Christine: Sorry to interrupt. And care, as you said before. Sharon: It's all about caring.

We're all human. Nobody wants to be ignored. Nobody wants to be invisible.: ask you, how much does a compliment cost? Christine: Yeah. Nothing. Sharon: Nothing. Christine: I feel good.

Sharon Lots of times people say, oh, shucks. When somebody says something, you don't have to say anything. Even walking in, I: have to say something derogatory because you don't know what's going on in that person's life at that time. Christine: Yeah.

Sharon But maybe you can help lift them up a little bit.: Christine: Yeah. And as you said it, it can be really little things. Very little like

your earrings, like your scarf. Anything that you see, anything that you: perceive and that you genuinely like about that person or appearance. Sharon: Absolutely. It's little things that make a difference.

It's: offshore attend, every year I invite four schools.

To bring four to five students and an administrator free of charge. And of course we: aspirations, we talk about dreams. We then try to connect them to people in the audience who have already done that or are doing it, and it's

just like light bulbs are: going off with everybody. And the amount of mentorship and relationships, it's like everybody gets inspired.

And again, whatever you can do to: build leadership. Give kids tools because, leadership should be taught and can be taught and is taught in some schools in a very good way.

There are a couple: of very good programs here in, on New York and in the States. But bullying, most bullies are not confident.

So if you can start to: develop confident kids and people, you'll find that people are less bullying because they believe in themselves. I believe, and we'll talk about it.

I believe in: me.

I believe in who I am. I'm amazing. And it's amazing. At first, sometimes people do, as you were talking about. With compliments have: about changing lives and building futures for people. And I do two women's events too. Christine: Wonderful. That's sounds great.

Sharon So it's, it, life's Christine, life's a great life: is a great adventure.

Why setter settle for vanilla when there are so many flavors of ice cream? There's so many things to do in life. If you: from and to.

And the great thing about each new year. Each new year as we begin a year, it's like getting a clean slate or a: pounds. But somebody else do it,

working out for me isn't going to lose my weight. You have to, I have to do that weight. I have to do the work: if I want the result. And that's what people say. I, i've really written the goal down. It's okay, did you write a plan? No, but that's my goal. And it's okay, but how are you gonna get there?

00:21:20: Yeah. When are you gonna do it? I don't know. Do you have a timeline for success?

So all of those things a goal without action is only going to remain a dream.: Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Sharon: If you can dream it, you can do it. You can be it. But yes, you have to work.

Christine Yeah. Yeah. But the work: doesn't feel like work if it's really, if you're working towards your goal, it doesn't.

Sharon You know when you hit the nail on the head with that one. Because when you are doing something you: love, if you are doing when, and you are doing something you love, you are not working.

You just are so passionate about what you do. It's a joy. So if you get up, and I: did have a job oh, many years ago, and it was the job was great. The people were great.

It was the management, it was toxic, and it: hate this job.

And when they renewed my contract with a lovely, big extender and lovely raise, I just said thank you, but no. Sometimes you: move on. Christine: Yeah. You need to care not only for others, but also for yourself.

Sharon But I think the other thing, with people looking at leadership is change. Change: what you do. You have to be willing to make that change, and sometimes you have to look in the mirror because when you look in the mirror, the person in that mirror

00:23:10: information and the happier you are, you're gonna be happier in your career. Leadership in life. Christine: Yeah.

Sharon Because the leadership skills that you use in business are the same ones that go: in your career and life.

So you, you can't you don't wanna be an imposter. I'm this person in the office, but this person at home, no.: Same. You are the same person, you don't look different.

I may wear a suit to the office or different, or I may dress more casual when I'm home for different things, but that doesn't mean I'm a different: person.

Christine Yeah. I shouldn't be. I shouldn't be. I shouldn't play any roles. No. Yeah. So after, after all those years, and with all your experience and an: expertise in this area, what are the things that still surprise you about humans and communication and leadership?

Sharon: things that they post.

I think, people have to get back out in the world, explore the world. And, be the people they want to: be. If it, they're the 10 most powerful words in the world are, would you like to know them? Christine: Sure.

Sharon If it is: to be, it is up to me. If it is to be, it is up to me.

You can't make my changes. I have to do that.: What do you see? Where would you go? What would you like to do? And I love to ask my staff this. We do it at least once a year.

What is your,: December and she has a brand new job with a school district who sought her out 'cause she had and she is beyond thrilled.

So it's like also encouraging: But meanwhile, she's achieved something. She said, I gave up on that 15 years ago and it's I've got four courses left in an internship.

And it's we've gotta get you on track to do that.: they'll follow you. So you don't want people to work for you because they have to.

A great leader has people working for them: because they want to.

And that's where great companies differ from many companies. Lots of companies you'll find that will say, we have such a hard time finding staff.: education and showing people a growth pattern for where they can grow. And happiness.

So the more that people laugh and do things together and: sometimes it's not. Sometimes we just go away. Little things can make a big difference.

Yeah. Remember, we're all human, honestly, Christina comes down: to one thing, the golden rule. Do unto others as you wish them to do unto you.

And if you follow that simple: thing, life is good. Being respectful, do unto others. How do you wanna be treated? So if you have leaders, it's not about managing.

How: also sometimes take that uncomfortable position, but you can also explain the why.

It's not only the why. It's the why and the: how.

Christine Yeah, absolutely. And also I think take into account that not everyone is, has the same types of motivation and it has the: wants and Sharon: some people, and we need everybody.

We need visionary leaders. We need people who think out of the box. That's what a leader does. They're thinking about things and especially in: the, just about everything that exists, whether it's electricity, airplanes, they didn't always exist.

Somebody had to dream it, to think it and do it,: you can have the visionary leader, but you also have to be training all the other steps because all the other levels make everything work.

So: has to change to adjust as well.

Christine Wow. As so many times I could go on with you forever because it's so interesting: conversation into their next meeting or the next conversation, what would you want that to be?

Sharon Remember your ABCs. Always: your dreams.

Christine Wow. Those are fantastic final words. Thank you so much, Sharon. Thank you so much for your insight.: confident and show the world that they have a vision and what that vision is and share that with everyone.

And then everyone is happier,: isn't it? Because if you work for a leader, everybody, every, everybody is

Sharon happier. There's so much more productivity. Yeah. You don't lose people. And don't forget, it's also easier if you get: to know and take time to get to know your team. They don't wanna leave you. They don't want to leave you.

And it's a lot more time and a lot more investment if you leave. Or if: revolving door, you've got problems. Christine: Wow. Sharon: And as a leader, you've gotta say, time out where what is causing it is me.

Where are the potholes? And: we've gotta repair them. Christine: That's fantastic. Now, Sharon, if people want to learn more about you, find you, where should they go?

Sharon They can go to my website.: U-R-S-T-E-I n.com. And my my email is sharon@sharonburstein.com.

My phone number is there. I love hearing from: people and I will tell you, especially if you call me or email me or text me, I always get back to people.

Christine Wow, that's great.: staying in touch with you. Sharon: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Have a wonderful day and an inspired week. Christine: Thank you.